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24 Cups weighs in
posted by Mike Boone at 12h32 EST on Jul 2
Wow, what an unreal 48 hours. You can say what you want about Bob Gainey, but he certainly isn’t sitting in his rocking chair anymore. Unfortunately, he fell out of it and landed on his rear-end . Sadly, the negative consequences of his poor judgement will be felt for years to come in terms of our beloved Habs. Here are some quick thoughts on the carnage of the past few days.
- many posters are busy working on line combinations and cap calculations. I’m not sure that is the best way to analyze what has happened over the past few days. It might be beneficial to look back to see what circumstance brought Gainey to this point in time. It has been six years since Gainey has taken over the team. Back in 2003, there were three main problems with the Canadiens. The franchise was weak at centre, was devoid of players with size and grit, and suffered from a lack of scoring. Gainey needed to move quickly and decisively to rectify these problems. His failure to do (on the first two points) impacted on his five year plan and left the Habs in limbo when it came to the playoffs of the past few years.
- fast forward to last week. There have been many improvements in the team but we still needed a front line centre as well as some size and grit, especially on defense. The addition of three players would have gone a long way to help improve the team’s overall chances. This factor, as well as the retention of some core Hab UFAs, could have complimented the continuing development of our young players. One or two bold strokes were all that was required to retool the team for a Cup run in a few years. Sadly, there was no master plan and Gainey was forced to build a patch quilt team with the cap space that he had. The results were as follows.
- Gainey trades for Scott Gomez. This deal has been universally panned by everyone in the hockey world. We have taken on a massive contract for a 2nd line centre and lost the best prospect in our system. As well, a decent forward entering his prime years was let go. Chris Higgins had a bad year in ’08 but certainly would have prospered under coach Martin. The worst part of the deal is that it didn’t address any of our major needs. You also have to wonder why Lou Lamoriello and Glen Sather passed on Gomez as he was entering his best years.
- Gainey eats up long term cap space by signing Brian Gionta and Mike Cammalleri. These players along with Gomez now become the face of the franchise in terms of offense. Gionta hasn’t done much the past few years but should bounce back with Gomez. I can live with Cammalleri but all of these guys lack size and 1st line stature (as a unit). This trio would be a great 2nd line on a Cup winning team. Alas, they are our answer to the big units of Pittsburgh, Washington, and Philadelphia. We are now a team of smurfs.
- Gainey repeats his Roman Hamrlik mistake by signing Jaroslav Spacek for three years at just under 4M a year. Both Spacek and Hal Gill are now in their second tour of duty as UFAs who can help out a struggling team. That’s pushing the envelope a bit too much as far as I’m concerned. Once is enough for guys this age. Spacek lacks size and is injury prone. In 2010, he and Hamrlik will be pushing 37 years of age as they pull down a collective 9.5M a year. That’s a lot of coin for two guys who can’t play in your top pairing. Hal Gill isn’t that bad a signing, considering that we’re behind the eight ball. He also makes reasonable money. He can’t skate and he is unable to stop the guys who can, but makes up for it with his wing span and experience. He also is decent on the PK.
- the panic signing of these two begs the question - what happened to the youth movement on defense? We lost Komo for the same money that most posters on HIO were willing to pay him. There has to be more to this situation than meets the eye. Either Gainey totally mismanaged the signing or Komo just hit the road for an extra 500K a year. Regardless, I’m left feeling empty and let down. Secondly, what do these signings of over the hill vets mean to the development of Yannik Weber and Ryan O’Byrne? The numbers dictate that O’Byrne will be in the press box and Weber will be getting very little PP time. Or worse, be up on the wing for half of the year. I would also mention that Ryan McDonagh would be ready to take on a significant role with the team in two years but that’s a moot point now.
- I really could care less if the Habs had of signed Alex Kovalev, Robert Lang, or Mathieu Schneider. All those players would have been stop gap measures while the team matured for a Cup run somewhere down the road. But what about Alex Tanguay? Did Gainey just bring him here for one year to help try and win a Cup? Is there something we don’t know about this player? Can he be any better or worse than Gionta? Makes you wonder, for sure. Saku Koivu? His contract and role on the team should have been worked out last September. He could have taken on an “Yzerman like” roster spot as he matured into his late 30's. Once again, you would have to be on the inside to know the real truth of the matter. Still, it’s sad to see him go.
- it certainly appears that Gainey’s plan to let all these contracts expire at the same time has backfired. He wanted to pick and choose who he would sign and use that uncertainty as a form of motivation but all it has led to is the loss of the players he wanted to keep and the subsequent settling for the secondary signings from the UFA pool. Even worse, is the fact that six years later we have few building blocks in place that are so important to building a Cup contender. Right now, only Andrei Markov fits that bill, although some would include Carey Price, but only by default. In a way, this may be Gainey’s biggest blunder of all.
- another major concern that I have is the number of 1st round draft picks that Gainey has discarded. I count five going back to the 2001 draft - Alexander Perezhogin, Komo, Higgins, Tanguay (2008), and McDonagh. It might be six if Kyle Chipchura can’t cut it in training camp. Where is the logic in all of this? To be fair, all teams lose some of their picks, but why do that and then be forced to go out and acquire other team’s players?
- you also have to wonder where the leadership is going to come from on this new edition of the Canadiens. Who becomes captain or even alternates? Sam Pollock always said that your team should be made up of thirds - an experienced group of veterans, a dynamic group of players in their prime years, and another third that is filled with eager youngsters who are trying to impress and make their mark with the team. I’m not sure you can apply that philosophy to this new edition of the Habs.
Well, what’s done is done and there’s no going back. We still have some young players on the team that should improve this year and a few good prospects in the system. No need to list the names. Our new acquisitions will certainly score some goals and help us win some regular season games. But when it’s all said and done, we will still be facing the same problems that we did six years ago. There certainly isn’t enough here to compete with the powerhouse teams in our conference. I’ve been here since 1959, so I will continue to patiently support my team as I always have, as I hang onto the hope that our young kids will exceed all our expectations and help turn this situation around.
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One of the most troubling parts of the Habs of the last 2 years has been the ridiculous spread in the talent base.
We have players over 35 and players under 25, and nothing other than Komisarek and Markov in between. This is something I blogged about here (http://eastmeetswest.krung.net/east_meets_west/2009/04/the-missing-gener...) and here (http://eastmeetswest.krung.net/east_meets_west/2009/04/the-missing-gener...
What frustrated me with Gainey's team was that he was unable to add top-tier talent in the key 28-32 year range.
What worried me was that Gainey didn't get that. He was goign to make offers to Kovalev, Koivu et al and we would see the spread continue indefintely.
But Gainey was reading my blog (hi Bob), and in a single master-stroke he found his missing generation. He got Gomez, age 30, Cammalleri, age 27, and Gionta, age 30, replacing Koivu, age 36, Kovalev, age 36, and lang, age 40.
We can sit and argue about crap til the cows come home, but the Habs are a younger and definitely better team than the team that won the Eastern Conference.
Bravo Bob.
Not sure which thread this belongs to, but here goes. I rarely take notice of any 7th round draft picks, but I am very impressed with Mike Cichy. I saw him a few times this year in the USHL, and he racked up 6G, 19A in 13 playoff games, setting a USHL playoff scoring record. I'll keep you all updated when he plays at UND next year. Also, for anyone who cares, he's set to be Danny Kristo's roommate.
I'm so happy we finally have an elite hockey league in Fargo!
-Dustin
Like most Habs' fans, I was stunned by Gainey's moves in the last couple of days. My initial reaction to the Gomez signing was entirely negative - the salary, the length of the contract and, most of all, the loss of Ryan McDonough. Wednesday's signings put things in a different perspective. I think we have more skill, more grit and more character than we did last year. And I think Jaques Martin will be able to coach this bunch into playing some solid, defensively-responsible hockey. Cup contenders? Not likely, but I think we'll see a lot fewer of the sloppy, indifferent games that disappointed us so much last year.
These wholesale changes strengthen my suspicion that there was a lot going on behind the scenes last year that was never revealed. None of the injuries and nothing that appeared in the press about off-ice shenanigans really explained the total melt-down of the team after the All-Star break. From being a good team (on most nights), we went to being one that was embarrassingly bad, the lowest point being the Western road swing and that pounding in Edmonton after we had already played (as I thought) as badly as possible in Calgary. Gainey obviously felt that team chemistry could only be rebuilt by making sweeping changes. It was clear by the end of the season that Komisarek wanted out, and I got the feeling late in the season that Higgins did also, despite the fact that he did well in the last few games and in the playoffs as a defensive forward. Not only did Gainey not re-sign a single one of our ten UFAs, but he made offers only to Komisarek and Kovalev, and even to them just before or after free agency kicked in.
I'll miss a lot of last year's team, and I wish a way could have been found to bring Kovalev back and Koivu as a second-line centre. I still hope Dandenault will be back. But I won't miss those nights when the team looked as though they simply couldn't be bothered. Next year's team will at least be hard-working.
But Gainey's moves are a public admission that his five-year plan has failed. The veteran core of the team has mostly gone. If the results aren't positive, Gainey will be too.
On paper, the Habs looked like they could take a shot (albiet long shot) at the Cup last year (hard to remember this given what happended, but with a break or two along the way, they did look that good). On paper, Gainey's 5 year plan had the talent.
But the heart was missing.
Robert L takes a look at the makeover and it's cap implications.
http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2009/7/3/936646/reconstituted-canadiens-hard-to#add-comment
A solid site for up to date cap info.
http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=MTL&season=0910
Remaining Cap Space
Here is an estimate of what the Habs have left based on a 56.8M cap
Spent so far = 47.9M (46.8 B/C) on 16 players
Injury/trade cushion = 1.5m to 2M
Players needed to be signed or called up = MaxPac (875000), Weber (900000 with bonus), Dags (508000 from last year), Lats (875000 from last year), Pleks (1.8M from last year), Stewart and/or Chipchura (estimate of around 750000 each). All these players have been qualified so Gainey would have a good idea of what they will make this year. If all are signed, it gives us a full roster of 22 players comprised of 14 forwards, 7 defensemen, and 2 goalies. One forward would have to be cut barring injuries.
Just watching some Gionta goals on Youtube.
Seems like he's pretty good on the shootout, as well as on the rush.
Check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rftnt5h8Hgs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m78dtjtW48&feature=related
- thanks for everything, saku koivu.
24 Cups is right
The Habs are no closer to a Stanley Cup. Last year was lethargic, but at best the Habs moved sideways and like the Rangers are tied to big contracts, and like the Leafs earlier this decade are trading draft picks and prospects but don't seriously have a chance at the cup.
this just in: http://www.theonion.com/content/video/nhl_tries_to_woo_fans_by
That explains why the Habs are loading up on big goalies!
I have to add a few points here that will help me to decide how I feel about the changes to our team. When I think back to that western swing we had late in the season when we lost 6-2 to Calgary and then 7-2 to Edmonton I remember how embarrassed I was at the lack of effort and absence of character from our team. I couldn't recall feeling more disappointed in the Habs, ever. I go back quite far (Fan since 1959), and always found a way to to be proud of my team through thick and thin. This year seemed different, some of the "stars" didn't seem to give a rats *** and I felt very discouraged. I even felt Colorado deserved to win that one game that Halak stole for us during that same road trip. I couldn't even see the bright side of that win, I was so horrified by Our Hab's performance (or lack thereof with the notable exception of Halak). That's the way I saw it anyways....
I remember thinking I would flush the whole gang if it were up to me and start over. Maybe I wasn't alone in that assessment. To have Kovy "mull over" a very good contract offer after Bob had to give him a "time out" during a critical phase of the season while our team was floundering...You're fired! For Tanguay to even give the press a reason to suggest he wasn't playing to avoid further serious injury when we really needed him...Not Habs material! Komi and the give aways no shot blocks and no hits when we needed them, not to mention how he had become a shell of his former self since Lucic pounded him...Can't trust him good riddance! Koivu is a warrior but he's getting older. Best of luck to him and I wish him well...time for a change.
Cammalleri, Gionta, Gomez, Gill, Spacek appear to me to be professional, no nonsense types who know how to work hard, play defense and smile through the sh*t and ask for more! I don't care how small a few of them are or how old a few of them are nor do I care what they are paid. If they are prepared to never give up, fight for every inch of ground and respect the fact they are members of the proudest, most successful, most historic of all NHL teams, then I am prepared to cheer these guys on as I have always cheered on my Habs for the last 50 years!
Solid post.
I too felt the same shame on that road trip, my first time doubting.... You can add loosing 4-2 to Vancouver on that western swing as I was at that game. That is when I never saw a group of lazy people get beaten to every puck and not once did anyone go to the corners! Not entertaining at all... this was supose to be a speedy team that kept coming.
That is when Halak was starting in Price's home province... Price's response was to get drunk.... turns out he got the call to go in when Halak was pulled... the rest is History. Then I had to listen to this girl beside me regail me on how her boyfriend was trading shots with Price all night the evening before the game.
Good thing I paid all that money...
But, then I flew a week later to Mtl to watch them against the Canucks and they kicked the canucks but 3-0... the same team, so much talent. I could not beleive it!
Yikes, so two faced they were! But I beleived again... so emotional being a HABS fan!
Bring on the players with heart I say, as the young talent is still on the team, they just need consistency and work ethic.
Kirbs
Solid post.
Just wanted to say that it seems that Bob's decision to wait and negotiate with UFAs at season's end has worked out brilliantly for him. In the end, he was only interested in keeping 2 players, and only mildly at that. Regardless of what people think of his moves, his gamble worked out that way he hoped it would've.
I don't think you'll be disappointed. The spirit of the Montreal Canadiens didn't die after 1993. It merely moved to the swamplands of New Jersey. Lou Lamoriello, though he was never employed by the organization, knew what the Habs were all about. He knew that the guys from the 75-79 run that decided to continue in the sport represented the "Harvard" of hockey. That's why he hired so many of them. And, like Pollack would have done, he had no problem inserting Robinson for Ftorek in order to win a Cup. Gomez and Gionta cut their teeth in Lou's "no BS" organization and will thrive in Montreal. Cammilleri played for Red Berenson at Michigan and he also knows what it means to play for a premier squad. Gill and Spacek together are an upgrade on Komisarek. Aside from any talent upgrade, I think the Habs just got a huge boost in character. I can't see whatever BS destroyed the Centennial Season continuing next year.
Your post makes more sense than the long post from 24 cups.
My only worry is the Gomez deal. The size of the contract, and who we gave up to get him. Higgins should have been enough. However, I like the signings. I never could have imagined that we could get Cammileri. I thought for sure he would end up in T.O.. In your face Burke (while u were trying to steal the sisters, we stole cammileri) Well done Bob.
I just want L'artiste back. Get it done Bob.
who would you rather have back for veteran leadership
mathieu dandeneault (utility player)
or
tom kostopoulos (stands up for his teammates)
- thanks for everything, saku koivu.
Dandenault - great heart, very versatile, and he can still skate like the wind.
Interesting question...
What I'd like to see would be to buy-out Laraque (while Gainey has made many mistakes - Laraque was the dumbest move), and use that money to re-sign Kostopoulos. Kostopoulos isn't a talented player, but somehow he seems to make his line-mates better. Witness him, Lapierre, and Latendresse last year - there were too many nights that they were the Hab's best line. He's a greek Steve Begin.
And for the 7th veteren defenseman - that should be Schneider. I think he still has some game, and would help out big-time on the PP.
As much as I'd prefer not having to hang onto BGL's salary, take a look at some of the guys TO signed, whom we will face many times. He may prove his worth yet...
I'd go with Dandenault, if only for the versatility he provides in case of injury (especially in game - the ability to move back and fill in for an injured D is invaluable). Also, I just like the guy :)
Also to answer your concerns about Cammalleri posted below - I seem to recall that his reputation as selfish was started by the GM of LA after contract negotiations went off the rails, so I'm not so sure it's a valid assessment...but you're right, only time will tell (although I think it's telling that he said he sought out the spotlight of Montreal, that he looks forward to the pressure)
Dandenault is tough as they come. He broke his arm and still stayed out there trying to block shots and what-not until he could get a shift change.
Dandenualt is a pure pro and was a top 4 D in the playoffs and out played Komy. He simply was not a Carbo favorite much like Ryder who flourished in new surroundings, Carbo dealt his career a minor blow playing weaker untested kids ahead of him. He lost his spot to Brisebois which in itself justifies Guy's dismissal. He played hard for Bob and it did not go un-noticed. I am sure Bob will try to keep him but it may not work. Hopefully he will find a place to play, he is only 33 and has not lost a step. He is a decent set-up foward too if needed.
It was a cold winters eve when i first realised how amazing tanguay was. get him back gainey.
koivu is worth more than crystal meth. luuu dat.
gionta and gomezzzzzzzzzzzz are mad hack tanks. camms is way too good for the modern world. all we need is tanguay.
call me Slideslacks, Goneffrey Slideslacks.
chillin you?
I'm optimistic. Instead of tweeting my thoughts into 500 seperate comments, I just wrote a blog on the Other Wing instead.
Well those were a couple of crazy days. Actually only Canada day was crazy, today sucked.
Not sure what to think, only time will tell.
I believe that what gainey did was genius. The team was in desperate need of a new face, if not a few new faces. Saku koivu is my favorite player of all time and to see him go kills me, but i can make peace with that. what really puzzles me is signing gionta instead of tanguay. if anything tanguay is a little better. i know that gainey is trying to rekindle the gionta-gomez flame from a few years back, but that was then and this is now. tanguay would have been my guy. either way, now that we have spent all that money, a few last minute signings like beauchemin and a big second line winger would really round this new team out and make us a big threat to the eastern conference.
komo will be missed, and a few guys like dandy and schneider (with a considerable paycut) would have been nice to have. but this is what we've got. gainey's got balls and i think we might be better off. GO HABS GO
I tend to agree in principle. Gainey had 5 years to do something... what was it? To see that what he built is not working? I think 5 years is long enough to make a plan, plan to execute it, execute and and get results... good ones. So what happens now... is this the beginning of the another 5 year old plan? While the acquisitions of yesterday were not necessarily bad, overall Gainey has still failed and I doubt he will be able to make us a contender. Sorry.
Man, 'Five Year Plans" have never really worked, just ask Stalin :)
You keep getting hung up on this notion of a five year plan...it's the surest way to drive yourself crazy. Does the team stink? I don't think so. Are they better than the other teams in their division? I'd say they're a solid 2nd. Are they cup contenders? Probably not, but hey, things happen...how exactly did Edmonton make it to Game 7 with Roloson in net??
Let go of the "Five Year Plan" concept and you'll be a happier man, I promise.
I think Gainey was much more like Stalin that most fans recognize. I think that when his hand was forced and he fired his friend Carbo a lot of death warrants were signed waiting to be executed -- no pun intended -- at season's end. With the exception of Markov, who probably had an "A" because he was the Habs one bona fide all star, all the other guys with letters on their sweaters were either traded or let go. Just remember what "Uncle Joe" once said, "For some people, four walls are three too many!"
I actually think that's one of the major reasons that he went behind the bench - not to save his job as many have theorized, but to get an upclose view of what was going on with the team and decide who he wanted back. It seems to me that he's gone for a complete overhaul of the leadership structure. Was that the right move? I dunno, I guess time will tell.
One thing I know for sure, he didn't make this decision flippantly.
Boy... there was a much easier way... we could have told him. I mean, if Gainey follows this team as closely as we do he knows what's wrong. In his case he fell asleep in his rocking chair far too ofter.
Look on the bright side. We have pretty much a whole new roster and coaching stafff to bitch about next season! All successful comedians rely on fresh material. I hope Carey Price realizes that he has one big freakin' bull's eye on the back of his sweater. He really better come to play next season. I can see Bob at dinner with him next year: "I didn't gut the room and piss away all of this money on a lark boyo! I don't give a rat's *** damn about the style you employ -- f'k if "Superfly" works, use it -- just stop the damn puck and for God's sake don't pout!"
LOL... "don't pout"... That's awesome, man!
Timo,
Now you've peaked my curiousity. What exactly would you have told Gainey that he doesn't already know? Let's see what you know all the way from your home out west.
Ha... pretty much what I've been saying all last year. That Carbo is a bad coach, that Koivu is not a good captain nor he is a leader, that Gui! needs to play some shinny first, that K brothers need to be shipped all the way back to mother Russia (or Belarussia or whatever), that Pleks needs to join female midget AA team, that Komi is a human pilon a-la Quintal, that all the defensemen other than Markov are good for nothing bozos who should be playing in a beer league, that his assistant coaches know as much about system and defense as those "experts" on TSN, that Laraque was the dumbest f*n move he has ever made, that firing Julien was the second dumber move he has ever made, that in case he didn't know Tanguay usually breaks with a wind gust of about 10 km/h, that Price needed to go back to AHL but not before getting a major kick in the *** from everybody in the dressing room, that Brisbois is NOT a solution to ANY, i mean ANY problem that a hockey team can possibly have... dude... you got me wound up. Good one :)
Oh, and that bowling is not a way to get team motivated. *** kicking is. Pain is the greatest motivator.
Those are pretty good answers. Now, what would you have told Gainey about his team in the 2007/08 year when they finished 3rd overall in the NHL? And why was there such a big difference in performance?
My take, and I could be completely off base, is that something happened off-ice around the time last season when Koivu and a bunch of them came back from injury. The team wasn't winning pretty, but they were copping two points on a regular basis before the injured returned. Some of the answers may be found on the long western roadtrip. I've said this before, Carbo alluded to it at his exit presser and that is the last we heard about it. Everyone went mum after that. Something happened. Gainey having to fire his "best" decision was the end for the leadership in the room. He had just f'n had it. They, the players, made him look stupid for the last time. Therein my friend lies the answer to your question and i will leave it to the press to answer it fully.
Yeats,
I don't know if you're partially or completely right. But, I do know one thing. You sure are intelligent enough to explore the possibilities for an explanation rather than state the usual drivel I read here. But that doesn't surprise me at all.
I don't know the truth. I am just suggesting something that might at least be plausable. I do think that Gainey tried his best. I fried his *** with gusto after the Higgins deal because I have seen a lot of McDonagh and the kid was our best d prospect. Having said that, his actions yesterday were much better than a purposeful tanking for draft picks that I would have been fine with. The wildcard now will be how the remaining 08-09 roster members respond, especially the goaltenders (read Price). Like most of us, Gainey was undoubtedly mortified by what transpired during the Centennial Season and yesterday was in large measure payback to the guys in the room that had let him (and us) down.
This may be true, but seriously, it was obvious that Habs lacked leadership in the room even before last season's shananigans. I said it as a joke but for many folks here it was a recurring theme that kept resurfacing - where are the leaders? Who are the true leaders? How many times name of Koivu came up associated with a word "clique"? Far too many for a captain of the most decorated team in hockey. It was obvious that there were groups in the dressing room and it was pretty clear who belonged where. Just but watching players on the ice not giving a crap that their teammate was hurt one could easily conclude that players did not get along and did not like playing with each other. Of course, nobody could say it definitively 100% but sometimes signs were too obvious. Gainey's mistake is that he was too patient. Personally I wanted to blow this team up right after they effed up against Philly in second round. And about 1000 times before that.
Well, whatever happened last year was (were) the final straw(s) for Gainey. No more long walks in the Old City or one-on-one dinners at his place anymore. It may have taken him longer to get there than you or I would have, but he ended up on the right side of the Lord at the end of the day. As Teddy Roosevelt said after his first wife died and he sort of lost his *** and went out West, there is no shame spending some time in a dark place, just so long as you eventually come out. I think Gainey has come out as far as the team is concerned.
If Price can get his personal life together, he'll be great this coming year. If not, he's gone as well. I expect that the new players will be putting some pressure on certain other players this year to shape up or they will be shipped out as well. We can only wait and see.
I agree with you across the board.
I don't remember... the pain of the last season has completely erased any pleasant memories I may have had for this team.
You're copping out because you can't quite figure out how it could happen, right? I think that Habs' management knew why and corrected some of the problems this week. And I also think that it's not over, but it couldn't possibly be a lack of talent as a reason because it simply doesn't fit.
How was your stint at the Betty Ford Clinic? Mine was actually quite restful. I plan on falling off the wagon again in the fall so I can go back!
I almost did fall off the wagon this week but thankfully all the events lasted one day so I managed to hang on.
He would never let it out in public, but I think the performance of the team in the Centennial Season, the off-ice *** that was alluded to by Carbo on his departure that may never see the light of day and the embarrassment of having to fire his "best" decision put Gainey as close to the edge as he could get. God help the person who mentioned "Niagara Falls" near him, it would not have been pretty.
I don't think Gainey panicked, or settled for. I see an audacious plan. I see a GM making plans and going for it. Things fell into place too quickly. Now, the question is, what was he going for?
I agree with the others who say this is a move to break a culture of defeat in the dressing room. We all watched this team last year and felt the malaise, the laziness and the lethargy out there. The Habs constantly folded, or played with no conviction. It ran through most of the line-up, but seemed to affect Kovalev, our indispensible second line hero the most. The brothers K struggled, Pleks lost his confidence and the team unravelled, again and again. We fans blamed Carbo. Then we blamed Gainey.
Forget stats. The rumours of cliques based around Koivu (it kills me to see him go), Price and Kovy may or may not have been important. But the team's contingent of party boys has shrunk. Any cliques have been shattered. The chemistry has been seriously altered, and with guys who have won cups. Will it work? I don't know, but I look forward to watching this winter to see. I wasn't looking forward to watching the Kovy soap opera again.
Notice how the league has tripped over itself in the rush to sign our unemployed veterans?
"- it certainly appears that Gainey’s plan to let all these contracts expire at the same time has backfired. He wanted to pick and choose who he would sign and use that uncertainty as a form of motivation but all it has led to is the loss of the players he wanted to keep and the subsequent settling for the secondary signings from the UFA pool."
Considering that both Kovalev and Komisarek were offered contracts but chose to use them as bargaining chips rather than sign with the home team it would appear Bob had a plan.
Once neither of those offered up a rebuttal or signed Bob looked elsewhere.
Koivu was never in the cards. Tanguay hasnt exactly been scooped up and Kovalev is still waiting. I would suggest people are overvaluing these assets as no one has stepped up with a decent contract.
So, one prospect gone with Higgins for a pretty good centre. Some five year deals that will wind down and make the players marketable. Two team leaders on the downside of their careers are looking elsewhere. Tanguay has played himself outta town for two good hockey men in Keenan and Gainey and his stock is dropping.
Gomez, Gionta, and Cammalieri play with heart and desire. This commodity was desperately lacking on last years habs. Lapierre, Latendresse, MaxPac and AKost have to step up if this team was ever going to succeed. Bob decided it wasnt going to happen with last years chemistry or lack thereof.
from what i've heard...gionta and gomez play their heart out...but i've never heard of cammalleri being in that category...to me he feels like a dany heatley type of player...but we'll find out soon once the season starts
- thanks for everything, saku koivu.
Wow, some sense on here :-)
Amen to all of this. 24 Cups won't be changing his handle any time soon.
Meantime, since the acquisition of the Molson brothers is the one off-season transaction of which I think we all approve, I suggest we wash down the next horrible five years with vast quantities of Ex—or any of the family's other sub-standard swills. I shall personally begin this weekend.
So to all of you on HIO, have a lovely summer, and please knock on the side of the bottle when training camp begins.
As they used to say on the ads: "salut le vrai!!"
Hey Howie Morenz, I drove through your hometown of Mitchell, ON today coming back from Grand Bend... I saw the park named after you and the great sign welcoming all to the town with the big, beautiful Habs logo...
Nice isn't it? Next time you're there, check out the mural on the side of the local arena. They did it up nice for me, and kudos to the team for letting them use the logo on that sign!
I dont get this doom and gloom scenario that is taking hold these days. The future is now for the young habs.
Koivu had too many miles and not enough left to contribute. Komi chose to leave. Tanguay never found a corner he could go into and Higgins never found a goalie with a hole in the middle of his crest.
Kovalev is welcome back later if no one else signs him and its time for the youngsters to step up.
Spacek is another puck moving d-man. A definite upgrade over Komi or Bouillon. Gill is big and tough and starting to come into his own as a big guy. Martin will help him on his defence and he will become rock solid.
OB was turned into a giant neurosis by Carbo's mishandling. Martin will benefit him too. Look for him to turn into an upgrade over Komi as well.
AKost is now the man. Big contract and not much cover with Kovy and Koivu gone. The new additions all work their tails off and this will have to rub off on both K brothers. They have too much talent and too little work ethic and that will change.
Weber is a non factor. Too small for a contender but just right for a has been. PK is the d-man to watch. He grew a few inches and will probably fill out into the 220lb range. Look for him to be an and coming star.
We still have Ben Maxwell in Hamilton, and several forwards developing in junior and college. The cupboard isnt bare and we have future drafts and trades and signings to add and subtract players.
I'd also add Price and Latendresse as players who will benefit from the situation and should/must improve. Plus Pacioretty and D'agostini could potentially constitute nice surprises.
To me Kovi has a negative impact on the room and I'm glad he's gone. Sure the artist dangles-shoots-and-scores the big goal from time to time, but how many invisible nights? how many turnovers? and how many flagrant pass situations can a guy ignore?
I really do think that a lot more responsibility will be placed on the younger holdovers. I have a feeling that it's the shape up or ship out year for the Kostitsyns, Plekanec, Latendresse, and Gorges. What I mean is that their performance won't be seen as a pleasant surprise or mild irritant, they are now central pieces in our team.
Though it was noone's fault, these young guys deferred to Koivu/Kovalev/Komisarek and Higgins (to a lesser extent)...now the team is theirs, time to take that proverbial torch and run with it!
Exciting times, THF, exciting times.
I really think it is. I'm stoked to see how Martin shapes this squad. I think players like the Kostitsyns played in the shadows of The Giants last season, not so much anymore...I think this season they're gonna FLY!
(and no, this doesn't make me a Gainey FanBoy, it makes me a Habs Fan :)
cheers!
p.s. What do you think the last move is Punk? Use the last $4m-ish on a D man? Maybe try to get Tanguay back? Maybe sign both Dandenault and Schneider? Only Dandenault? Save the cash for next year when Price is an RFA?
I agree. I dont think this team is ridding as much on the new siginings as they are on the younsters. They will make or break this team. Odds are someone is gonna break out this year...I hope....
can anyone show me proof the Gionta and Cammelleri would not signed with Montreal if Gomez was not here. Cammelleri mentioning Gomez isn't proof. Players say *** like that all the time.
something besides Dione Warick and the pschyic hotline please...
Only if you show the proof that they would have signed herewith the same center we had for 10 years first. Cause, through all those years ufa's were just ligning up at the gate to sign here.
lol
sorry, couldnt resist. I dont really care if they signed to be closer to La Ronde. The signed and thats fine by me:-)
me too but anyone suggestion that they wouldn't have signed here without the Gomez trade is either Chris Angel,Kreskin or
.
Something was not working in the room last tear and it showed on the players.so lets have a bit of pateince
and what developed.
I was tired of waiting for Kovy to wake up and stop giving the puck away.
Old but still reigns true....
http://www.hockeydirt.com/2007/03/pierre_mcguire_.html
Warning: BOONE - DO NOT READ.
it was time for a change. Gainey saw this team up front and personal when he went behind the bench and clearly did not like what he saw. Let's not forget how we complained endlesly about this team and most of the players all last season. We need to wait and see how this team gels.
There was way too much cancer and distractions on this team that Bobby had to make major changes and more will come in some young guys on our team if they stop making a fool of themselves in public and on the ice.
I have to give Bobby a shake in the hand, I wouldd have done the same thing by signing for players who have grit and character and play 100% each game whether it is a smurf or a giant and some of these smurfs love driving to the net and are not afraid like Tanguay or Higgins.
I sense McDonagh was not developing to the team;s expectations and hence the trade with Valentenko who may come to the NHL or not, it was a gamble.
Everybody remember Josef Balej form a few years back? He was one of our few bright prospects we traded to the Rangers and he turned out to be a bust.
This is the nature of hockey. I feel a little more positive knowing that Bobby went after 3 North American players and 1 veteran hardworking Czech. No one caan say now we don;t have any homeboys on our team anymore.
Will we be a better team? Only time will tell but we got 2 younger guys in Gionta and Gomez and unfortunately Koivu and suprisingly Kovalev days were numbered. Bobby had to do this.
As I stated many times, the young guys have to step it up and Lats, Pax, D'Ags, O'Byrne, the K brothers to name a few must produce and compliment the veterans.
If they do, we will be seeing exciting hockey in Montreal for years to come.
Just pray people I am right, just pray .
"We will win the Cup one day only with a mature Carey Price in the nets"
Grabovski signed for 3 years with a cap hit of 2.9(approx) a year.
Maybe the Gomez deal isn't that bad.
No, Earl...its still that bad.
But there's always the Leafs to help cushion the blow...they are like a warm blanket, that way.
Totally agree. Add to this the fact that BG jumped the gun on that Gomez trade. Why not wait till after July 1st and deny the NYR the cap room they were so desperate for? Instead, he has enabled them to get a bad signing off their book and have the cap space to go get Gaborik.
WE could have had Gaborik, for the same cap hit as Gomez, without losing any player! WE could have had Havlat (bigger forward) for the same cap hit as getting one of the smurfs!
No plan whatsoever, unlike, sadly to say, the Laughs. We're gonna be hurting from years from this mismanagement. Gainey = Houle.
Quo vadis, Bob?
LOL yes, the cheers would have been loud for Gaborik. We would cheer GA..... and before we could finish the rest of the chant, his hips give out and he heads off the ice on a stretcher. He played 17 games last year, but was a point a game, super.
Hilarious!
Because without getting Gomez before July 1 you lose attraction to get Cam and Gionta as well as others. How does anyone besides current GM's know the prices out there for the best centres??
do you know if Gaborik/Havlat would have come to montreal. maybe they decided NO.
So Bob signed a whole new 1st line, and only a first line. but last year the bigger problem was no secondary scoring coming from the 2nd line. What are we left with now? the same 2nd line! We've got a better 1st line perhaps... but then going back to the end of last year, the first line was one of the hottest in the league.
we didn't really add the offensive depth with these sigings... but we could have had we kept at least kovy or tanguay.. even saku. I tend to agree with those who say we've taken a sideways step, having not improved on offensive depth - although you could argue that the first line is better - especially from a consitency point of view. You can't rely on one line for your offense.
Correct, you cant rely on one line. You go out and get a great 1st line and hope your prospects come of age. If the k-bros have a break out season and Plecs can get it together, we will be fine. Every team takes this risk.
I think one of the arguments many of have been making is that if Plekanec return to form and the Kostitsyns have a break out season, the Habs would have been just fine with Koivu, Kovalev and somebody else (Tanguay? Ryder?) up front. One need only look to two years ago to see that.
I don't dispute that the new first-line players will almost certainly suit Martin's system better than the outgoing first-line players. I'm just tired of a number of people trying to blow rainbows up my rear about this being a significant upgrade on offence. It isn't.
It is a significant upgrade on defence if Gionta and Gomez are the same players they were for the Devils. Cammalleri isn't known for his defensive prowess.
But this team comes and goes as the youth go, as you say.
There's only so much changing you can do in one off season. I think the first line is much better than last year. I have a feeling Koivu and Kovy were even going to slip more as far as production this year. They are getting older. I too am concerned about our second line, but as I stated, we can't change the whole team in one year. It is time for the youngsters to establish themselves as bonafide 2nd or 3 rd line players and to flourish. All the pressure is on the new guys now, as true 1st liners. Pleks and the Kostitsyns,D'Ags and Lats have to take over as a great supporting cast. Maybe Pax can surprise as well as O'Byrne,Chips and Webber. A successful team is made up of a few stars to lead the way, but it is the youth that fuels the engine. We need our youth to do their part.
Mostly I agree with you. THing is, if Bob saved some cap room by signing these new aquisitions a little cheaper we could have kept Kovy (OK - i admit I'm partial to Kovy) and given our 2nd line more punch. So I'm partial to Kovy, but resigning Tangs or even koivu would have accomplished much the same thing: giving our 2nd line more punch.
Remember when at the end of last seaons when the pp was on fire - it was so good because we had threats on offence and defence so the other team couldn't commit to effectively block either alone without opening up a chance for the one they didn't block. The idea applies to having 2 threatening forward lines - dividing the defencive resources of the other team.
So yeah, we can hope that the supporting cast picks up where they left of 2 seasons ago. I think it would have made more sense to shift some offence from last year's ASA line onto a 2nd line and give up some of that supporting cast who last year dissaponted.
24 Cups - I feel you're wrong. Most of what you wrote I disagree with. But I'll just state three things:
- if Komo has another season like he did in Montreal - and this is possible and even probable - then Ryan O'Byrne will give the Habs almost as much as Komisarek did.
- Tanguay would have been my last choice to re-sign. He might be the softest player in the league. I think this opinion is shared by NHL GMs as there doesn't seem to a be a lineup waiting to sign him. ANd say what you want about Cammalleri and Gionta being small, they are certainly not soft.
- if a player on Montreal was 27 years old and had just scored 39 goals, we'd be thrilled to lock him up for the long-term, regardless of the price tag. So why are some of us panning the Cammalleri signing? He's entering his prime and there's no reason to suspect he won't score 39 again. Do you remember the last Hab to score 40? Brian Bellows, in 1993. Let me say that again - it's been 16 years since a Hab scored 40. This reason alone is why Cammalleri can be so important to this franchise, at whatever the price.