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About last night ...
posted by Mike Boone at 22h31 EST on Dec 3
I could list the Canadiens' negatives in this game, but there isn't enough room ... even on the Internet.
The Canadiens began the game with a decent shift by the Plekanec-Cammaleri-AK46 line.
After that – disaster.
Buffalo is supremely well-coached by Lindy Ruff and always plays a smart, disciplined game. I would imagine that in his practices, Ruff runs drills that are more taxing than anything his team experienced in the Canadiens' end for 40 minutes.
Zone coverage is a joke. The depleted D corps – basically, Roman Hamrlik, Jaro Spacek and four guys who would be Number Six D on good hockey teams – got no help from the forwards. The Sabres maintained possession for long stretches. tossed the puck around like it was on a string and buzzed Jaro Halak, who coughed up some juicy rebounds.
Three coaches on L'Antichambre – Jacques Demers, Michel Therrien and Guy Carbonneau – talked about the Canadiens' non-existent transition game. Unlike the Sabres, who are in continuous motion, Canadiens forwards stand around waiting for low-percentage passes that are broken up easily.
Where is the Martin system?
Are they not dedicated/disciplined/smart enough to play it?
Or, scary thought, are the Canadiens just not good enough?
On Wednesday night, I watched the first period of the Vancouver-New Jersey game. The Canucks wre flying, and I could have followed the game if my picture tube failed.
Click-click-click-click. Tape to tape short passes. It's what good hockey teams do to clear their zone and move the puck up the ice.
Vancouver does it well, and they do it at speed
Canadiens' puck movement is nervous, imprecise, utterly predictable. And when they manage to gain the O-zone, almost always with a dump-in, they're unable to sustain puck possession or exert pressure.
Nine shots in 40 minutes? That's not nearly enough for a team with few natural snipers.
The Canadiens aren't getting any scoring, nor will they from grinders like Travis Moen, Glen Metropolit, Max Lapierre, Max-Pac, Ryan White and Tom Pyatt.
I can't fathom Jacques Martin's thinking in starting Scott Gomez (who finally got a goal, off a sweet SK74 feed) with Pyatt and White.
Look, I love the kids. They work their butts off. You see balls-out effort from them in every game.
But 100 per cent from Ryan White and Tom Pyatt translates to what? 10 goals each, maybe?
Martin put Gomez with Cammalleri and AK46 for the third period. The line had its moments, but how can you judge performance when the Sabres are coasting on a 4-1 lead.
In his postgame remarks, a disappointed Martin repeated his usual mantra: the importance of execution, winning one-on-one battles, hard work, dtermination.
"You have to play with desperation," the coach said, in French. "Teams are so well balanced. Individuals have to win their battles."
Martin would not put the blame for the debacle on his goaltender, playing his first game in three weeks, or Dmen. He blamed the forwards for non-support. They made Derek Roy, Jason Pominville and Jochen Hecht look like Lemaire, Lafleur and Shutt.
Defencemen, including sensational 6'9" rookie Tyler Myers, jumped into the rush with impunity, creating overmatches in the Canadiens' zone. Mike Cammalleri's backchecking was particularly brutal.
But what's the point of finger-pointing?
Everyone sucked. No fewer than 14 players were minus on the night.
So what does the coach do?
Bag-skate his team on centennial day, hours before the second game in two nights?
In the set-up of my game blog last night, I quoted ESPN hockey columnist John Buccigross:
During the 2008 (U.S.) Thanksgiving holiday weekend, 14 of the 16 teams that were in a playoff position went on to play in the postseason, and all eight teams in the Eastern Conference that made the playoffs last season were in the top eight at that point.
I see that as an anomaly, and it won't happen this season. But it does show how difficult it is to make up ground with the presence of three-point games. Pay less attention to how many points out of the eighth spot your team is right now and pay more attention to how many teams your club has to hop over. That's what makes it difficult to get out of an early-season hole. It's like Bubba Watson shooting 74-73 and being tied for 53rd after two rounds of a PGA event. That's a lot of golfers to jump over in two days.
But cheer up:
Tonight we're gonna party like it's 1909
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Gomez was horrible again last night.
He carried the puck until his linemates had to stop and let him catch up. When he finally did catch up, they were standing and waiting for him so as not to go offside... THEN he passes them the puck. If that is what we wanted, we should have kept Kovalev.
Or, he would pass a puck to a non-existent winger.
He doesn't carry the team on his shoulders yet he isn't held to the same standard as Koivu who played his heart out for every game.
Of course Gomez wasn't the only one that was horrible but he is the only one that eats up over $7 million of salary cap and cost us our top two LH defensive prospects.
It's a crying shame what Gainey did to this team.
I feel like Tiger Woods today. I've gotten pummelled by Leaf fans from all sides. As a result I've decided to stay in the house and say nothing....
Yep. Last night sucked. Did nothing to make a fan proud. Hate losing but especially when have to see an effort like that. I think if Cammy scores on that first opportunity it would have been a different game. Might not have won but probably a better game none the less. He had another good chance in the 3rd after we potted 2 to make it 4-3 but he's a streaky scorer and is on the wrong side right now. Hopefully we'll see a better team effort tonight win or lose. D is getting worn down and vunerable to any type of strong forecheck which doesn't bold well for tonight. I was impressed with Sabres ability to get out of their own end with speed creating a lot of odd man rushes. They haven't any superstars but seem to play a fast game. They haven't been bit as bad as us with injuries but excuses are for losers. When we play a solid team game at least we make it interesting. Those 1st 2 goals killed any enthusiasm we had at the start. Halak was not to blame for the loss but those rebounds were brutal. In the end Sabres were and are the better team. Bruins aren't as good but will smoke us as well if we don't get a better effort tonight. At this point, all I'd like to see is a solid team effort and if we get it, we have a chance. Forwards need to get back and we need to transistion out quickly. If we can do that it slows the other down from doing doing what kills us....a strong forecheck. Not feeling overly optimistic but will watch with hope and accept the results with dignity. Fingers crossed.
IT'S A TEAM GAME - Go Habs Go!
D worn down?
We are only into Dec. yet!
Im really tired of hearing this Markov ***. I loooove Andrei, but he isnt the messiah boys and girls. He wont turn pucks into wins, if this team doesnt get its head out its own rear end first. I have been an optimist for as long as I can remember, but dam their isnt much to cheer up about right now. What is more important than Markov is the return of Gionta, the need someone on the inside to tell them whats what.
... Pressure Off Latendresse in Minnie ... by Rachel Blount / Minn. Star Tribune ..... http://www.startribune.com/sports/wild/78483002.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUBP7hUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr ........ an excerpt ..... His welcoming new teammates helped him fit in quickly. He also said coach Todd Richards' style of play resembles the one used by former Montreal coach Guy Carbonneau. Latendresse flourished under that system, averaging 15 goals and 27 points over three seasons.
What would it take to draw Bowman back home?
Looks like I missed a dandy last night. Shacks! Yep, Bob Gainey is still a great GM and the team will definitely turn it around in no time... like 50-60 years I figure.
Always critisizing but never providing solutions. Boy, you're a pisser. Want to throw some ideas out besides firing Gainey? What's the next move? You think we suddenly become something else because Bob is gone? Who do you replace him with and what would you have him do and how? Try something new Timo beyond your usual noise.
"Don't play to get into the Playoffs - Play to WIN the Division" IT'S A TEAM GAME - Go Habs Go!
LEAVE BOBBY ALONE.....IT'S NOT HIS FAULT....WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I should, I shuold... otherwise poor guy might lose his sleep.
lol
- let's make it a triple crown: Impacts, Alouettes and now the Canadiens!
Brutal game last night. Lone bright spot, nice feed by SK74 on the Gomez goal. No need to panic just yet, this team will get a huge boost once Markov gets back. Just need to keep close to .500 until then.
Boston struggled mightily with Savard out. Atlanta didn't win much with Kovalchuk out. Pittsburgh lost a lot of games when Malkin was out. Those teams were lucky that their best players only missed a couple of weeks and not most of the season.
And if things don't improve, maybe we can finally draft a franchise center to build around.
We're burdened down by Gomez's contract for the next 5 years, plus we need to resign Pleks. What's the point in drafting a franchise centre if we have no room for him in the lineup?
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I no longer love this team. The Habs are making me Bi-Polar.
A rookie on an entry-level contract can only make a maximum of $850,000 plus bonuses, I'm pretty sure we'd have the cap room. A center like Gomez can pretty much always be moved to the wing like Briere and Giroux in Philly.
Or if we end up with a lottery pick, would could potentially pick up Taylor Hall who plays left wing.
for a team that was playing with a lot of speed and desperation, they're either burnt out or looking ahead to yet another must-win celebratory home game (what is that, 6 this season?). they looked distracted and disengaged on the bench. they looked confused on the ice. halak looked kind of lost and got no help. they looked small, and even worse, they played small.
the constantly changing roster can't help. gomez and d'ags back, ak back, gill back soon... all good long term, but clearly causes juggling and wrecks whatever chemistry has been created over the last few desperate weeks. lots of knocks on gomez all the time, but at least he has the sense to pick up some speed and get the puck deep in the offensive zone, unlike ak, maxpac, cammy, pleks, etc last night. and i like how gomer goes into the faceoff circle looking like he is going to win the draw, and not afraid he is going to lose it (a la pleks - is that why i don't see many people pleading for BG to sign pleks these days?).
i posted on centennial thread that i want to see a donnybrook to draw the boys together, like the game they had vs boston in Nov 07. win or lose, show some fight. respect the tradition by showing you are willing to battle and bleed for it. regardless of the outcome, the team will be better for it.
Thoughts from my first Habs game ever last night...
I want 80% of my ticket price back, because the Habs didn't even play hockey for most of the game.
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I no longer love this team. The Habs are making me Bi-Polar.
Nothing is worse than last years team. Sorry but the post all star break was the abolsute worst. Hopefully this year is last in reverse.
I'm with you.
It's a MAB MAB world.
Bashers will be out in full force today. But it's hard to ignore that one of the major factors contributing to the team's lack of success are injuries to key players. In the new NHL being able to keep your core players healthy is a key determinant of success. In addition, there's not much separating each team in the league. Consider the Ducks. Playoff champions just three years ago and now firmly entrenched in the cellar of the Western Conference.
I still believe that if the Habs can stay close to .500 until Markov returns, they will make the playoff cut and surprise a few teams in the post season. A lot of the game at this level is mental. The breakdown against Washington late in the game last Saturday seems to have left the team in a fragile state. I see too many key players (Cammy, Gomez & Pleks in particular) gripping their sticks too tightly. The players need to start believing in themselves again. Too bad tonight's tilt is at home. A few more road games could be what the doctor ordered.
agree. i put a lengthier, yet similar, post below about having more success with a healthy roster. but, again, I'll say that even with all the horses in the stable, the 09-10 Habs are just not a great team, average at best and far from being cup contenders.
Agree, they are no where near the upper echelon of the league right now or bet your money on contenders, but like any other team in the middle of the pack, still capable of putting a string of games together or beating quality opposition on any given night. I also believe that Gainey isn't done molding this new version of the team. And despite the naysayers, the Habs do have some tradeable assets that could be moved to improve the team now or in the future. Regardless, it's been an interesting season so far. Much more to come I'm sure.
The only guys that work hard and have skill on this team are Pleks, Gionta and Camms. And Gionta is hurt.
If I see Gomez dump the puck in and coast his way into the corner one more time, I'm going to throw something through my TV set.
If I see Gomez skate all the way down the boards and take a shot from an impossible angle at the hashmarks, I'm going to throw something through my TV set.
Can someone teach this guy that
a) there isn't a black hole in the slot that will eat you
and
b) forechecking is allowed in the NHL.
It really looks like Gomez enjoys his money, and just plays a self-preservation style of hockey. Can't enjoy that $8 mil/year if you're hurt now can you?
Well, you can...NHL contracts are guaranteed. And I don't think he'll end up crippled from going to the slot.
What it comes down to is that Scott Gomez has ALWAYS been a periphery kind of player. Some years, it works. But generally, it doesn't. I won't be surprised to see Gomez have another big year or two in his career. Like Kovalev and Koivu, those big years will be scattered amongst many mediocre seasons when teams allow him to sit out at the boards and try to beat them from there.
"And I don't think he'll end up crippled from going to the slot."
Sometimes it seems that Gomez thinks so...
Statement game for Halak. The statement being, "trade my *** outta here before the next train leaves town".
i know the habs defense were not helping out, but halak had a bad game and that will make every mistake seem that much worse. You can't coach bad goaltending, and last night the habs got bad goaltending. I'm not saying halak isn't any good, but the fact remains he was terrible when it mattered.
if you come out of the first down by one despite playing brutal hockey, then anything can happen. also, MAB is a risk/reward type player, and last night it was risk.
That's what happens when you sit for almost a month while our "saviour" again gets preferential treatment over the good of the team
i disagree. i think you saw last night that the only reason why the habs won at all in november is that price gave them the chance. a few big saves early from halak and it could have been a different game. I think halak is a good goalie, but he is not now nor have the upside that Price has. but enough with price vs halak. my point was halak had a bad game.
Rebound control is purely from rust.We can also say that the only reason we won any games on October is Halak. I just hope it doesn't get ugly tonite or the boo-birds will be all over Price.Undeservedly so. On that subject,I have no problems booing the team,but the Montreal "fans" are pretty pathetic when it comes to booing individuals.
halak has had rebound control problems most of his career. i agree with you on halak and the month of october. I also agree with you on the subject of boo-birds.
I'll go with the 'scary thought' for three hundred Alex, "Are the Canadiens just not good enough"?
No team is going anywhere without good goaltending - and that includes the backup. Price played 9 straight games - and he played super during those 9 games. It would have been hard to take him out when he was on a streak like that. But maybe that was too long a stretch for Halak to sit. He was rusty and it showed - but he sure didn't get much help.
I'm sure there is going to be some Halak bashing on the site today, but what happened last night really shouldn't come as a surprise. Historically, Halak has always stumbled after sitting out for a long stretch of games. He usually gets it going right after his first start or two. To be fair, how many goalies can just step in after sitting out for so long and put in a stellar performance? Not to mention that once again the team didn't score any goals while the game was still up for grabs. (I even wonder if Martin subconsciously knew this and put Halak in as cannon fodder on the hope that Price might steal the game from Boston. Or maybe that's just way too much over analyzing:-)
Right now, goaltending is still our strongest position and we should be thankful that we have two solid young guys. The only failure here is the fact that Martin doesn't have any proper system of rotation due to the fact that we're desperate to gain every point we can. Truth be told, it really doesn't matter that much in light of our present scoring woes.
Agree that bashing Halak makes little sense. As for rebound control, it's been an area of development for him since he started so no one should be surprised if it gets him in trouble. Over a season, his other assets have compensated.
It's not just about individual players... the team is just as responsible for their performance as any one player. Love the way the Sakatchewan Roughriders rallied around the '13th man'... they get it. I'm not a fan of their team, but I sure admired the way they handled that loss. Lesson there for everyone.
Kelly Hrudey, many moons ago, broke goalies up into two classes: goalies that block the puck and goalies that make saves. In his opinion, both styles are equally effective if played properly. It came up when discussing Tim Thomas' perceived "luck" in net...he felt that the Bruins and Thomas had simply mastered his style and he was not "getting lucky" as so many opposing fans would like to believe.
Jaroslav Halak, like J.-S. Giguere and Tim Thomas, is a puck blocker: he relies on extraordinary reflexes and quickness to get his body in front of the puck. It is ugly, it is unorthodox but it is also very effective. What that style requires is a defence corps that is ready to clear the multitude of rebounds that occur. When the Habs play well, they are collapsed down in front of the net and they are getting every puck out of the danger area. When they play poorly, they get a bit lost defensively (especially Mara, who often cheats to the other side of the ice) and those juicy rebounds are now available for forwards.
Carey Price, like Martin Brodeur and Roberto Luongo, is a goalie that looks to make saves. He plays a more conventional, textbook style, looking to control the puck as much as possible, via catching it and/or not allowing any rebounds. Price's style of goaltending is very dependent on his positioning...when his mental focus wavers, his positioning is a bit off (he gets deep in his net and goes down early) and opposing shooters can take advantage of the small openings that are there because his reflexes just aren't quite quick enough to make up for the less-optimal positioning.
Comparing Price and Halak is silly...they are two very different goalies. Halak is always going to generate more rebounds than Price, because of his goaltending style. It's not a mark of being a less good goalie, but a DIFFERENT goalie. The perception that Price has a weak glovehand will always persist simply because he is such a big guy and covers so much net that the players only have two places to shoot: high glove-hand or high stick-hand. When he's on, his positioning limits those opportunities. When he's a bit off, those two spots open up a tiny bit more, but enough for elite shooters like those in the NHL.
This is also part of the reason why I think the Habs have always struggled with one guy in net after a long run with the other guy in net. The players grow accustomed to Price's stick-handling and puck-control style and play accordingly, so adjusting to Halak's shot-intensive, rebound generating game often takes a couple of games. I would argue that the Habs would be better served to let one or the other go (and I really don't care which) and bring in a second goaltender whose style matches that of the one they keep. This allows the team to play the same regardless of which guy is in net.
Thanks for this post.Well thought through and fun to read.
only one thing I disagree with there Chris...Giguere and Tim Thomas in the same catergory? Thomas is perhaps the most athletic goalie in the game....Giggy is probably the least athletic goalie in the league...he is the guy who relies on size, angles and positioning not reflexes and athleticism like Thomas. Giggy is on the other side of the globe relative to Thomas ...i would actually say Giguere is the most position and size reliant goalie in the game. I remember commentators actually joking that even his brothers and friends all laugh and joke all the time about his lack of athleticism and they all can;t beleve that this guy has done what he has with the tools God gave him. Fun post.
Comparing them more from the point of view that neither of them cares about controlling the puck in the same way that other goalies do. They worry about stopping it, and if there is a rebound, then they worry about stopping that too. But yeah, I suppose I should modify that a bit.
I would agree that Giguere is definitely more positional, while Thomas is more of a scrambler in the Hasek mold. I think Halak is a bit of a scrambler as well, but not quite as talented (yet!) at it as the other guys were. Thomas didn't perfect his style until his late 20's, while Hasek broke out in 1993-94 at the age of 28 years old. At 24, Halak still has some time to master his craft.
You could argue that Price is still a bit more textbook butterfly style than either Brodeur or Luongo as well, who I compared him to, but I think that he will also evolve his style into more of a hybrid goalie like those two. He is so technically solid and seems to have the requisite athleticism to pull it off, so it's just going to take him a bit of time to perfect it. At 22, he's also got time. :)
Sorry bout the nitpicking lol .....I think the difference with "scramblers" and reflexes goalies is a direct correlation to the talent and shooting ability of the competition. At every level jump it becomes more and more difficult to be a "scrambler" and there is an understandable delay once they get to the point they are facing the elite shooters like Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, etc. Ultimately the puck is faster than the goalie so positioning and "baiting to your strengths" also become important tools. Anticipation and a read on tendencies is probably also a factor IMO with regards to the longer learning curve for "scramblers" . I think the best goalies are the guys like Brodeur and Luongo who combine the best of both worlds...Price can eventually fall into that catergory.
I think Price has both mindsets and abilities as his reflexes are better than most give him credit for but I think sometimes when his confidence is down he actually overanalyzes which in his case results in overplaying that leads to underplaying if you will. He will make quicker deliberate moves but then is often out of position but doesn't compensate and is often very slow in reassuming a defendable position. When he is on he is compact and gets away with what appears to be a lackadaisical game at times with respect to positioning. He needs to maintain the urgency to find the puck at all times and that is a very real flwa that he appears to be working harder at getting rid of...his tracking and "compete level" in traffic have been pointed out by numerous goalie analysts and many armchair critics too because at times there is validity there. Goaltending is much like baseball and playing percentages...once you do all that is humanly possible to eliminate the opportunities to be scored on through fundamentals and basics then goaltending becomes much easier...another reason many goalies blossom later as they get away with more with lower calibre competition...not in The Show though....any flaws become exposed and habits need to be changed...and percentages need to be played before athleticism and ability even come into play.
Rebound control is one of those areas where ideally you wanted to control them...when you are in a groove it is easier obviously....noone aside from Gretzky and Lemieux IMO has learned to summon that "slowing down of action" ability on a consistent basis on demand ever...and dfefinitely no goalie....some do more often than others and Roy and Brodeur come to mind along with Hasek as being incredible when the chips are all on the table. Rebounds mean you stopped the puck....not a bad thing....sometimes people forget that is their job...rebound control is a frill if you will. There isn't much that can be done when making a kick/pad save to control the rebound..they often appear the ugliest as they are usually fat rebounds...but how else do you stop those? The stick is a bit of a gamble......really it is the stick that allows goaltenders to steer the puck into corners and aside from that they really are at the mercy of the shooters and what is required of them to stop the first shot. Breadbasket, glove hand, blocker...much more control is naturally required and can be mastered but for the most part rebounds down low are just the nature of the beast. IF a guy breaks down the right wing and shoots low far side.....there is almost always going to be a rebound if the shot was half decent (see Lapierre the other night)......did Miller misplay that? No.....he made the save on a shot that was labelled low corner....where shooters should shoot if they know they have a trailer on the far side. that is a situation where in an ideal world Miller deflects it maybe to the corner with his stick....well the world ain't ideal and he kept the first shot out by themeans he needed to....how Gorges a dman was left alone is not on him but instead is on his backcheckers.
Nice post. I agree with most of what you wrote here. Although I would nitpick (hey, fair is fair!) and argue that Hasek at his peak was every bit as effective as Roy or Brodeur, while Thomas has been in the upper echelon of goaltenders over the past three seasons. Not bad for a pair of scramblers.
lol...I wouldn't argue that on either front...would have about Thomas a year and a half ago though. I do think it is notable though that with the "scramblers" you are referring to "peaks" or specific time periods where they were better. With Roy and Brodeur they were able to play at that level pretty well throughout the entirety of their respective careers and were able to elevate their games more often and I believe that had a lot to do with not having to be 197 percent focussed every second as their positional skill kept the simple shots simple....I just think that "groove" or "being in the zone" becomes more important when you don't eliminate the controllable or at least partly controllable elements of goaltending. I enjoy watching the goalies like Thomas or Hasek far more...they are thrilling to watch...I don't know how many shutouts I have seen from those two where I couldn't even recall a great save....or at least a great appearing save.
Thomas and Hasek were always highlight reels...but is that better? at some points it obviosly was as they mastered their craft but in the long run...I think anyone would choose Roy or Brodeurs career over Hasek or Thomas.....at least I would hope they would.....obviously Hasek is a heck of a lot closer than Tim Thomas but you know what I mean. It seems by the time the "scramblers" master their craft they are older and are starting to approach the pioint at which their bodies begin to abandon them shortly after. Hasek played till he was very old but he never really matched that magical few year run and couldn't handle the physical rigours anymore. Thomas is playing great but howmany more years can he be the most athetic goalie in the game? I think he is going to decline gradually over the next three years..he is 35...only natural and even moreso IMO with his style....who knows though he is a freak....but if I were to wager....
disclaimer...Hasek is far and a way the best scrambler of all time and relatively speaking is the Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky of scrambling.....I would including Tiger too but Phil is usually the master at scrambling...until this week that is. Still though scramblers on a whole will not fair as well IMO and over time the guys who play fundamentally sound and at the same time can anticipate, have adequate relexes and hockey sense will win out if all other things are equal is my point. Dom was/is a freak both on ice and off lol....no disrespect to him becuase he was a treat.
It's really hard to say....Roy was obviously a legendary goalie. But he also played behind extremely good if not spectacular teams for much of his career. The Montreal Canadiens of the late 1980's were consistently ranked in the top 5 of the league (from 86-87 to 92-93, they finished 5th, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 5th and 6th overall). With the Avalanche, he played behind teams that finished high up in the standings year after year as well (3rd, 1st, 6th, 4th, 9th, 1st, 4th and 6th). Playing behind some absolutely phenomenal teams, his greatness manifested itself in the playoffs with his 4 Stanley Cup victories. But as a regular season goalie, I'm not sure that he was as transcendant as people often believe. Elite? Yes. But miles better than the other elite goalies of his era? No.
I'm not disputing Roy's greatness...he was a big part of the reason why those Canadiens and Avalanche teams were able to amass such great records year after year. But I do wonder what his career would have looked like if he was switched in the 1990's for Dominik Hasek. Does Patrick Roy win those 3 Stanley Cups playing behind the Buffalo Sabres? Does Dominik Hasek win 3 Stanley Cups in Roy's stead? I don't know the answer to that. But I do know that a big part of Roy's legend (as with many other goalies) is that he won Stanley Cups, and was therefore the greatest of his era. The problem I have with that is that it denigrates the efforts of the lineup in front of him. An argument could certainly be made that the Colorado Avalanche were actually a disappointment in winning only two Stanley Cups with such a stacked roster, featuring some of the greatest players of that era.
The reason Halak gives up more rebounds is becuase he is a small goalie. Plain and simple.
Bigger goaltenders can get into the butterfly and concentrate their efforts on where to angle their rebounds, as they fill a good portion of the net. Smaller goaltenders are required to be more active to take up the same ammount of space as a larger goaltender, they also need to play angles more aggressively and come out higher up in the blue paint. Being more active and aggressive produces more rebounds. It's plain and simple.
They're both butterfly goalies, they both have similar styles. Halak is 5'11. Price is 6'3.
That's the difference.
sorry, but I disagree. do also believe the sun rotates around the earth?
One of the reasons I read all the comments here is because I come across gems like this. I just learned something new. Thanks Chris.
Great post, Chris. So much more enjoyable than some of the rock throwing that goes on here over Price and Halak.
I admire their "13th man", too. It shows how they are behind their team, no matter what. However, as an Als fan, I liked it especially when he's on the field handing the Als the Grey Cup. The irony of that guy holding the sign, "The 13th man is your worst nightmare!", is priceless. And Grey Cup worthy, too.
Halak has long enough to get it under control.
Did not see the game last night but it can't be any uglier than some of these posts. Teams in a rough patch folks... instead of slagging them and looking for people to blame, let's try supporting them as they work their way out of this. No one said it was going to be easy - and that was before the injuries.
Let's all take a deep breadth, acknowledge it is likely to get worse before it gets better and give these guys some support. I know that's harder than bitching and complaining, but let's give it a shot.
I agree there is no point in slagging or calling out certain players fro poor play. They all could have done a better job.
What I will call out is the horrendus mess Gainey has made of this team. It is a flawed team with a cap max'd out for several years. Gainey may have started out as a good GM but his moves last year have wrecked this team for years to come. We are six years into his rebuild and we have regressed to where we were when he took over with little hope of improvement in the next few years. The biggest gift gainey can give to the Centennial celebration is his resignation.
I agree it is time for the fans to cheer and support the team but it is also time for those fans who truly care about this team to demand changes in management and ask for for Gainey's resignation. This team in my opinion is analogous to the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. I support the troops 100% but I do not support the a--holes who sent them there.
mjames
mjames for GM. Timo for assistant GM. Start the petitions today!
Two points in reaction to your post mjames... first, I respectfully suggest it's too early to call this a horrendus mess. It's just does not feel fair to pass judgment right now. It's been a struggle and it's too early to say it's a result of Gainey's reboot of the team.
Second, I'm not going to pass judgment on Gainey in any event for a lot of reasons: first, I greatly respect him and believe he is competent and really cares - if his moves don't work out he will be asked to leave and when he does I won't be judging him then... I will continue to respect him. You give it your best shot, circumstances dictate 99% of success and if it does not work out you move on and give someone else a shot. No dishonour in any of that - happens to each and every one of us in our career, especially when we take on big challenges like this one.
Second, I just don't know enough to be a competent judge. I don't have the knowledge and experience - heck, I don't have any of what it takes to stand in judgment. And I have confidence that the owners and others do. I am completely content to leave it in their hands. They know where they are trying to take the team as a group - we don't - and I trust they can assess how it's going.
Judgment is a waste of time in my view. It just creates a bunch of crap that robs me of my delight in something that is supposed to be enjoyable. There are enough other, real things in my life to worry about to add BG's performance to the list.
6 yrs of Gainey and this is what we have? I don't think it's too early to tell.Look at the roster and the contracts we are saddled with.The first 4 years we improved and the last 2 we are at the point where we were when he took over. Markov won't be back to where he was until next season.That's a tough injury Gionta,all heart, was on pace for 53 pts,which is his average the last 3 yrs anyways . AK 46,is actually A.Kovalenko in disguise. $ goals over his last 50 games is more than a slump. Like Bill Parcells says "you are what you are",And we are a 2nd division club,and will be for the forseeable future.
I agree, mjames. I loved him as a player, but he honestly has turned this into a mess.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY HABS!
Nice quote J Ambrose.
At least there is no goalie controversy. Rubberpads Halak! Shaky glove Jaro. Your 10 %er wanted a big contract from you - get a new agent. you sucked hard tonight, now your agent knows what its like to eat crow shite.
The Price Haters are like the like Hayward lovers, I hope. Who won that battle for the net?
And for the NON GOALIES in the line up. keep this up and I will heckle an heckle and heckle. Bell Centre don't know hecklin' if they don't know the J Bird.
Gomez played well enough. Not 7 mill good but........... and OB laid a check and they scored a goal in 10 secs. go figure.
Worse than watching Craig Simpson figure skating while flippin' channels,
Here's to 101 Years!!!!!!
I am neither a Price or Halak basher. Whoever is in nets I want to succeed. I want two #1 goalies. God knows we need assets. Now concerning your evaluation of Halak, I agree with the "rubberpads" comment but the "shaky glove" commnet well Price has that market covered.
mjames
Ole Rebound has had better games. Last night he sucked. Not bashing, just calling it as i see it. He has a long way to go to be a #1 goalie on any team. Even the softest shots he gives juicy rebounds. he has been like that since his AHL days.
This team is too soft & small to go anywhere. Even if by the grace of God they made the playoffs, they will be to banged up to win one game.
IMO this will be ONE of the worst teams in Franchise History. I said that the leafs will be ahead of the Habs by the new year, looks like it won't take that long.
Thanks Gainey for NOTHING.....
Is it time for the wittuh baby to cwy?
Nice
Pffft....you are not even worthy to call yourself a Habs fan. Coming down on a guy who has been the most consistent of all of our players for the last several seasons like you just did is a disgrace. You are even lower than Leafs fans. Halak deserves better than that, and even if you are too childish to realize it, most people here do - no matter what side of the goalie wars they are on.
__________________
"The System" is the new black.
Jbird, note to self.
100 years. Win or lose. 24 Stanley Cups, 2 that you can remember, is a great thing.
Best,
Je bird
PS While Boston sucks, the year is done, win or lose, we win.
PPS Congrats for having no faith in the team Johnny. TWO FOUR! VS. 1967! Too Many Men!!!!! TWATAWA 1914??!!! YEAAAHHH! Your team Rules no matter what. Your grandchildren may not say the same, screw them! They will have way bigger issues!
"Man, tomorrow night's centennial celebrations are going to be like meeting an ex-girlfriend who looks even hotter than when you broke up with her. And much hotter than your current girlfriend/wife. And your current girlfriend/wife KNOWS it."
WOW... and it's true :(
What is the opposite of this??http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iikKzQwgBJc
Habs I love you for better or worse. But could you not be the worst ever??To all the negative posters who say 'tank', you are right.
The Canadiens should unload at the deadline anybody who is worth a draft pick or prospect. This includes the Kostitsyn brothers, Plekanec, Gill, Mara,Halak.... enough of this mediocrity.
Fire Gainey, the Canadiens have no direction, they have few prospects, and the team is handcuffed to three tiny forwards who all make great second liners. Gainey panicked in the offseason and it will cost us fans for the next five years.
I agree there is no ''I'' in team, but the Canadiens ave lacked a gamebreaking forward for so long many fans do not even remember one.e
Forget this season, when Markov got hurt that was it. Go for last HABS, sacrifice this season. The best the Canadiens can do this sseason is 10th.
Do whatever. I expect the worse. I'm already in the Bomb Shelter.
I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that part of the blame is on last years squad. Yes they aren't here now playing and losing games, but they had their chance and left this team in such a state that Gainey had no other alternatives then to put together the team we have today.
Let's think about it for a moment. At the start of last years season, Gainey was being praised for putting together a great team that was on its way to something special. It was our centennial season and we had just come off of a strong regular season in which we were crowned champions of the east. We had a pretty good playoff against Boston and a less then stellar outing against Philly. Even so, the Centennial season was poised to be a great one. We didn't lose anybody overly significant (we missed Streit) and added Tanguay and some grit in Laraque. At the time, these seemed like key signings. The year stated off so strong with an even hotter start then the previous year...
Fast forward to the end of the year and to great disappointment. Not only was last season a disaster, it left us with several question marks when it came to free angency. It was obvious that the team that finished the year was not the same team that started it. They were non cohesive group of players that lacked direction. You could blame Carbo, blame Price, blame Kovalev, blame Koivu, blame Komo, blame Higgins, blame... heck, everyone has their favourite whipping boy. Any way you look at it, we found somebody to blame. In a sense, what we ended up with is a team that was no longer a team we could field.
Resigning Koivu, Kovalev, Komo, etc. meant a step in the same direction. When it came to these free agents, the story has written itself. Koivu, Kovy, Komo, arguably the biggest free agents out of Montreal, have been less then affective in their new digs. The rest are almost not worth mentioning. Tanquay is doing 'ok', but his injuries made him not worth gambling on. In essence, Bob Gainey knew that he couldn't put the same team back on the ice, and had to make some decisions. Sign the whole lot, or some of them, and face the same tired song... or blow it up and start over.
We know what he did, and really, I believe he had little choice. He trades for Gomez, who was underproducing in NY, but is loaded with talent. Yes, he is extremely over paid, but don't fault Gomez for that. In fact, thank him, because if it wasn't for him then our favourite new additions, Gionta and Camalleri probably would not have signed with the Canadiens. Could you imagine what the Habs would have looked like if they didn't sign Gionta and Camalleri? We signed Spacek, who, along side Hammerlik (who Habs fans have constantly revered as an overpaid underperformer) have proven to be one of the most solid D-pairings in the NHL. Moen? Yes, he's been a strong role player. Gil? He could have been better, but really, he is what he is, a big lug who kills penalties.
Yes, during the "Free Agent Frenzy" Bob Gainey was the busiest of all GM's. He did what he could to put players with heart and skill onto the ice. Comparing each player will lead you to realize that the Habs have upgraded in all respects. I will miss Koivu and his leadership, but Gomez will prove to produce more in the next few years then Koivu. If Bob had come up short on July 1st and signed no big names, he would probably have been considered a failure. Instead, he put together the best team he could with whatever means he had. Are they winning? No... but up until the game before the Leafs, the Habs were playing .500 hockey, which is pretty impressive, all things considered (injuries, lack of talent). Boone speaks of this team not being good enough? They aren't. Clearly.
Blame Gainey? No, Bob's done all he can to maintain the dignity of this franchise. The guys that were winning it for us 2 years earlier when Bob was hailed as genius, the ones that won the conference and we were all excited about before last season, they were the ones that ruined it. Their lack of effort, poor play and off-ice antics made last season one of the least enjoyable in recent memory. I'd rather have the group we have now over the group we had. The current bunch we have now is doing their best to make the most of an uphill climb. Doing what they can to weather the storm with a broken umbrella. Don't blame Gainey for the current habs, blame the boys that gave Gainey no choice.
So let's blame players who are not here for the reason the team sucks today. Makes absolutely no sense. How about we blame Gainey for putting together a bad team to begin with and then when he had a chance to wipe the slate clean, do exactly the same thing all over again. Just a different cast of characters. Not only that, but making sure the next GM will have an almost impossible job of cleaning up his mess because of all the money he threw away. I've never seen a hockey guy, who's been in the game for 35 years be such a terrible judge of talent. he has no clue how to build a team, what makes a good team, what makes a good player, how to piece together different types of players to make a greater whole. This guy literally plays it by ear. Unbelievable how clueless this guy is. Who would have known?
After winning the conference nobody was saying that his team was terrible or that he was doing a bad job. Why 1 year later and with the same roster was Bob a failure. He did what he could with that group and they had success. They blew it and he had to do something for the future of the franchise. If anything, we were lucky to have signed all the free agents we did last summer. Imagine the team without them!
You just blame Bob because Carey is playing well, Lats is gone, Kovalev isn't here coasting... etc. Run them all out of town until there is nothing left I guess.
After winning the conference nobody was saying that his team was terrible or that he was doing a bad job. Why 1 year later and with the same roster was Bob a failure. He did what he could with that group and they had success. They blew it and he had to do something for the future of the franchise. If anything, we were lucky to have signed all the free agents we did last summer. Imagine the team without them!
You just blame Bob because Carey is playing well, Lats is gone, Kovalev isn't here coasting... etc. Run them all out of town until there is nothing left I guess.
I agree with your post. I do not understand how some blame everyone including coaches and players but continue to absolve gainey for any shortcomings on this team. If he is hailed as a genius when the team is going well should he not also share in some of the blame when things go poorly.
Secondly if the players Bob brought are all superior to the ones he let go, how come this the team's record is so inferior to last years. I don't want to hear about injuries. I can assure you Gionta and Gill would not have turned this wreck around. Markov? He is good but he cannot carry this team.
I agree with your comment that Bob basically changed the chairs on the deck of the Titanic. This ship is still going down.
mjames
5 thoughts after watching this game.
1) Should i cancel my subscription to RDS?
2) How good is Taylor Hall?
3) It's a sad realization that 2 years ago was about as good as it's likely to get for some time in Habsland.
4) Darcy Regiere's has managed to have fun to watch competitive teams for several years now (with the occasional blip) despite being a small market team that's had to let several higher priced players go.
5) If I were Pleks, would I want to stay here?
Cammy better than Tanguay
Gomez vs Koivu (Not factoring money, Gomez but it's hard to ignore the money)
Gionta vs Kovy (Gionta but despite his inconsistency Kovy had some size)
??? vs Lang (Too old to keep on a team that's not a contender but we seriously lack an adequate replacement)
??? vs Lats, Higgs (granted Lats wasn't doing well with us and Higgs is doing crap in NY but they were both promising and certainly expected to be 2nd line talent and had shown spurts of that in the past)
Moen is better than Kosto
Actually I think we are better on D this season.
Spacek, Mara are better than Bouillon, Dandenault (especially offensively)
Gill vs Komi (not factoring money, Komi is obviously the better choice but simply wasn't worth the extra cost and the team now wouldn't be scoring more goals with Komi around anyway)
Bergeron vs Schneider (Schneider of last year was better but not the one this year, like Lang he's too old to keep on a team that's not a contender)
---
Conclusion?
Although we have less injuries to key forwards this season we have significantly less depth which makes the absence of gionta more pronounced. Add the injury of Markov and one can't be surprised by the lack of scoring and the occurrence of some embarrasing losses.
Our only hope are the Kostitsyn bros much to the dismay of many fans. They were a large reason for the success of 07-08. A. Kost is typically a slow starter, even in 07-08 he only had 2 more goals by the end of november than he does now. S. Kost is getting some assists and he joined the team around this time in 07-08 too.
If the Kostitsyn bros get going and then gionta and markov return, I think the team will start having a lot of success. Maybe not 07-08 success but comparable to the first half of 08-09.
The roster's not bad. On paper it's better than the 2007-2008 roster. Certainly the roster is not a lottery team roster. It could be better, of course, but I still think it's not Maple Leafs bad even with the injuries.
I don't blame the GM for the player moves. You can quibble about his strategy, but Gainey can't really just decide to tank, can he? About the only truly questionable move that's been made was signing Gomez, and while I don't like the contract I like the player if you're trying to create a puck possession team.
So why isn't the roster performing as it should? At some point, you need to look at the guy behind the bench, the guy who's had issues with some players all year, the guy who's supposed to implement defensive structure and something resembling a system. It's absolutely not working. Worse, the team is playing worse now than it was 10 games into the season. I am so very disappointed in JM.
I do think the team is comparable to last season's but we have a lower number of forwards that can fill a top 6 role now which isn't good.
In 07-08 and 08-09 we seemed to be overflowing with top six forwards. Now we're missing 2 (3 with gionta out).
This team need the Kosts bros to play well because unlike last season there's no Lang to fill the void now.
Puck possession team? I agree it an admirable objective but if one looks at the Pittsburgh, Columbus, Detroit, Toronto, Washington, Buffalo, Nashville games to name a few we are so far from a puck possession that it is embarrassing.
mjames
You're player comparisons are fair, but you fail to mention how much better are all these guys than their predecessors. In all cases, except Cammy - Tanguay, very slight. To me the D is not better this year. Maybe about the same. You seem to forget that the team from last year was one of the worst teams in the league during the 2nd half. So our team of this year, that is all in all about the same as last, is one of the worst teams in the league also. Guess everything does add up and make sense.
Now, "if the Kostitsyn bros get going'....huge if, and pretty unlikely. Not in any real impact way. i'm pretty sure they're both gone by early March anyways. How is this team gonna have a ton of success when 2 guys come back? Gionta's couple of goals doesn't make much of a difference. Markov yes, but he's only one man.
That was my point. The K bros have to play better (ie 07-08 form) if the team is to have success this season. Without them, the team will continue to struggle like last season's team did in the latter half of 08-09.
Gionta's 8 goals, 5 assists in 19 games so far, that's not bad at all and he's just a good guy for getting the team going. Kostitsyn's are improving, Sergei's set up three goals in his first 5 games back with the team. Andrei's picking things up and it's not like the team can trade a lot for them, maybe a 2-for-1 deal for another forward but that just leaves the Top 6 short a man again. Markov will make a significant impact when he return and everyone will see it.
Defence is much better over last year, team couldn't win without Markov, they've been winning without him this season and O'Byrne makes me forget Komisarek was a Hab.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. http://habsandhockey.blogspot.com/
F-it. It's time to accept that we do NOT have the personnel to win it all, much less go deep into the playoffs. I love our Habs, and I love the effort we've seen most nights. We can't be too hard on our boys if they do NOT have the skill set to make magic this year. I will be watching for the hard effort and cheering that.
On another note, to HardHabits:
Your tank avatar (although very funny) breaks my heart. I've enjoyed most of your posts throughout my time here (especially those where your photo was a girl with the Habs towel.) It hurts me (and many of us) to see you advocate a hard core suckfest tanking. I like to think that we, as Habs fans, are too good and too proud for that. Besides, one player does NOT make a team. And, with our luck, our #1 draft pick would tear/break something and make a career out of selling used cars in Sudbury or, God forbid, Fargo, ND. Granted, I spent most of my evening downing Molson Canadians while crying my way through the game so my opinion may not be worth much.
Anyhow, those are my two cents. I'm off to bed now with hopes that my headache tomorrow doesn't interfere too much with my work day. Happy wound-licking everyone.
-Dustin
Believe me it'll hurt me more than it'll hurt you. You think I am advocating a one season suck-fest only? It'll take 4-5 years to undo the damage that's been the Habs since Roy's departure. We need multiple years of multiple 1st round draft picks. We have had too many years where we went the opposite direction and traded picks for players, only to see them walk. I said it before and I'll say it again (with a slight variation), the Habs are the greatest train ever but we're in the era of aeroplanes now, BG might make an excellent engineer but he's getting outflanked by pilots.
"the Habs are the greatest train ever but we're in the era of aeroplanes now, BG might make an excellent engineer but he's getting outflanked by pilots."
Quite possibly the BEST HI/O quote ever. Well done HH, well done indeed.
-Dustin
People complain that we dont get the elite talent in this league like crosby, malkin, ovi, kane, toews, stamkos, tavares etc. well thats because we always bust our behinds to finish 7th or 8th and get bounced immediately. Im not saying lose the games purposely and tank. I am saying we should trade away some of our assets for draft picks. two guys who im sure can command a descent pick are metro and mara. if we got a 4th rounder for chipchura then you figure metro can command more. and mara will be wanted as a 6th or 7th dman on a contender. i realize this isnt gonna just turn us around but its a start. you need to stockpile draft picks so you get more shots at making a big hit in the draft which is where in the salary cap age you need to build your team. now if millbury gets hired again hopefully we could dump gomez on him and get some much needed salary cap relief...anyways i can take a season of losing so long as we have a plan to improve this team in the long run and make a run at a cup a few seasons down the line. finishing 9th and 10th simply wont do it.
Did you just call Mara an "asset"? Love the part about Milbury BTW!
Mara is not as bad as he has been the past few games. he is WAY over used. if you can keep him at 15 or 16 mins a game he could be useful for a CONTENDER. definitely worth the chance of giving up a mid round pick.
All we are missing is scoring. Cammalleri has been off for a few nights and so has Pleks. All players have been off, in fact. Wait until Gionta comes back and see what Pouliot can do. A.Kost still looks to be improving. I don't want to pack it in yet.
You can say I'm gonna be a cautious optimist.
May be the team is told to save some energy for the Centennial game. Bob's team couldn't be that bad.