Bleu, Blogue, Rouge: All-Star ballot-box stuffing embarrassment to Habs players, organization

posted by Dave Stubbs at 18h52 EST on Nov 16


ken-reardon-card.jpg

Canadiens Hall of Famer Kenny Reardon had two assists and a five-minute major for fighting in the first official NHL All-Star Game in October 1947.
O-Pee-Chee card courtesy Normand Dumoulin

DAVE STUBBS
The Gazette & Habs Inside/Out

For decades, Canadiens fans have been known for their passion, knowledge of hockey and love of their team and its rich traditions.

(This love is conditional, of course – many fickle fans file for divorce with a single loss then apologetically reconcile with a win, arguing this merely is a part of their passion. Whatever.)

Where other National Hockey League clubs have dumbed down the game with cheerleaders, off-ice distractions and cheesy promotions, the Canadiens have been restrained by comparison.

Yes, the club has reshaped a number of customs in recent years, marketing itself to beef up the bottom line in an obscenely expensive business.

It’s part of a strategic plan to attract new generations of fans who aren’t likely to wear furs and fedoras to the arena. If rally towels, car flags and an orange mascot aren’t the way the Canadiens used to be, neither is the NHL the quaint six-team league it once was.



But the club has also preserved and promoted its history and legendary players better than any other in hockey, which is why this 100th season has been tastefully special, one more embrace of what has gone before.

So it’s unfortunate now to witness a legion of Canadiens fans who know more about Vista than Vézina stuffing the digital ballot box for January’s Bell Centre All-Star Game. Their goal, through javascript and fingertip, is to ensure that all six Canadiens on the ballot will be named to the Eastern Conference starting lineup.

I’d suggest that the Canadiens organization is more than a little embarrassed by this.

And no matter how the half-dozen Montreal players publicly laud the passion of their fans, they’re surely red-faced, too. Any lustre of being voted to the All-Star Game is flushed with this frantic scheme.

Penguins' Crosby miles behind in fourth place

Forwards Alex Kovalev, Saku Koivu and Alex Tanguay, defencemen Andrei Markov and Mike Komisarek and goalie Carey Price are not merely leading every other player in their Eastern Conference categories. They are ahead by ridiculous margins, their monstrous numbers fuelled by computer-vote programs written to carpet-bomb, around the clock, for all six at once.

Last evening, four days into balloting, Kovalev, Koivu and Tanguay had vote totals nearing 200,000. The next closest forward, Pittsburgh’s Sidney Crosby, was approaching 88,000.

(In the Western Conference, where Detroit fans are similarly if less actively engaged in lobbying for the Red Wings, forwards Henrik Zetterberg, Pavel Datsyuk and Marian Hossa had about 90,000 each. In fourth, Calgary’s Jarome Iginla had roughly 85,000.)

On defence: Markov was at 214,000 and Komisarek at 195,000; Washington’s Mike Green was third at not quite 68,000.

In goal: Price had topped 210,000, leading the Penguins’ Marc-André Fleury by 167,000.

Last season, a richly deserving Markov was elected as a starter with 316,136 votes. At this rate, he’ll eclipse that total well more than a month before the Jan. 2 election close.

Maybe this nonsense is as silly as the All-Star Game itself, a popularity contest and nothing more. It’s a non-contact, strictly-for-laughs exercise designed to please fans, stroke sponsors, attract B-list celebrities and run up football scores to further convince NHL brass that nets should be larger and goalies smaller.

Digital ballot-box stuffing began in 2006-07, the first year of the unlimited online vote, when New Yorker Steve Schmid decided as a gag to lobby for the selection of Vancouver Canucks journeyman blue-liner Rory Fitzpatrick.

A Vancouver programmer’s subsequent “Rory Vote-O-Matic” swamped the league with 285,000 write-in votes in just two weeks.

Fitzpatrick, a 42-game Canadien in 1995-96, ultimately fell short and avoided selection humilation. Now, computer-literate Montreal fans have piled onto this ill-conceived bandwagon.

Canadiens stripped of thousands of votes

Late last week, the NHL said it was studying the legitimacy of this Habs runaway, the rules stating that automated voting activity is prohibited. Saturday into yesterday morning, it stripped thousands of votes from the Canadiens, as many as 20,000 from Kovalev alone if you’re to believe the “real-time” totals.

But then, does it really matter? The All-Star Game long ago took a fork in the road from its original purpose and much of its relevence.

The first official game, at Toronto’s Maple Leaf Gardens on Oct. 13, 1947, was played between coach Hap Day’s Maple Leafs and Canadiens coach Dick Irvin’s all-stars. One-third of proceeds went to children’s charities designated by the Maple Leafs, two-thirds to the newly created NHL Players Emergency (Benevolent and Disability) Fund.

The Maple Leafs lost 4-3, Canadiens defenceman Ken Reardon earning two assists and even a major penalty for fighting Toronto rearguard Vic Lynn. In an all-star game.

Goaler Bill Durnan, defenceman Butch Bouchard and forward Maurice Richard, with Reardon first-team all-stars in 1946-47, were the other Canadiens on Irvin’s bench.

Fanfare trumpeters heralded the on-ice arrival of each star, which Reardon later recalled as “one of the most moving moments of my career. …

“We were so determined to win that game you could almost hear the fellows grinding their teeth as they walked to the ice,” he said in Andrew Podnieks’s book The NHL All-Star Game: Fifty Years of the Great Tradition. “I never saw a group so fired up in all my hockey career.”

The game, which truly meant something in the late Reardon’s day, has taken many forms through six decades, a contest between teams, conferences, political rivals, even continents.

Where Reardon and Lynn were slugging one another in 1947, the only hits in January’s Bell Centre game will be to the voting website, many fans balloting even while asleep.

Maybe it’s time for the NHL to designate a committee to objectively select the all-star rosters, based purely on performance. Let the fans choose honourary captains and the players they wish to see in the skills competition, which is far more entertaining than the game anyway.

Montreal fans would be better off refreshing their players instead of their browsers. They’d be doing their heroes a bigger favour by flooding the vote for the other guys, to give six Canadiens a few precious days away from the rink in late January.

Canadiens defenceman Andrei Markov seems bound for his second consecutive All-Star Game. Here he scores on Western Conference goalie Chris Osgood in last year's contest in Atlanta.
Dave Sandford, Getty Images

andrei-14.jpg

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Garbo's picture
For some reason Stubbs has removed this post (http://habsinsideout.com/all-star-game/11163) in which he admits he was completely wrong in this article.

boris420's picture
Can you say over reacting!!! Ive been on several other team sites and they too had auto voters! Are you trying to tell me that they are an embarrassment to their teams too! This kind of stuff has always been going on and will always continue. To make such a big deal out of it is what I find ridiculous! This whole thing seems like people want to write about it to get hits or something. People just wont shut up about it! GET OVER IT! Even if this was politics there would still be a tone of controversy over the voting. Its like Florida all over again! Again, either get over it or find out who started the riot and go point the finger at them!

Drive_For_25's picture
I agree it's ridiculous, but embarrassing?? I would find it embarrassing if the league stressed only one vote per fan and we were exploited for mass amounts of fans using automatic voting devices. They almost promote this sort of landslide for the home team, it's just that no other team has the support of their fans like the Habs do. You were even promoting voting as much as possible on this very site, weren't you? Maybe someone else posted the forum, not you Dave, but your still part of the site, right? All will even out by the end of it and everyone who DESERVES to be there will. I personally only voted once so I'm not trying to defend myself wasting hours of my life sitting at the computer repeatedly voting for an All Star game which nobody cares about anymore, although it should be very cool in the best hockey city in the world, I am just very surprised to hear you call it embarrassing for the players and the organization. I agree that it is pretty ridiculous but I'm not embarrassed one bit.

I very much agree with you on this one, Dave. My first reaction when I heard about the ballot-stuffing initiative was that I actually thought we should stuff it with votes for our biggest rivals in the East (Pittsburgh, mostly) so our guys got a rest while theirs were worn out! After all, I don't even watch the All-Star game anymore, it's pathetic. But... after further reflection, I decided that the players would disagree because a) some may get bonuses for making the all-star team; b) getting to play at home in the All-Star game, especially in the 100th Anniversary year, would be fun for them (and less tiring for them than if the game was elsewhere) and more fun for me - since it's in Montreal, I probably will watch it this year. But maybe I'm a bit old-fashioned too... I've voted like 6 or 7 times now, but I'm not voting "straight-ticket" Habs. Markov deserves to be a starter, even non-Habs fans will likely vote for him. Koivu and Tanguay have started the season hot enough that I can justify voting for them. I voted for Price too, because although he's not exactly on fire this season, I don't feel like any of the other East goalies stand out from the crowd as being obviously deserving of the spot either (if Luongo was in the East, I'd have to vote for him). But I did NOT vote for Komisarek and Kovalev - sorry, but they're just not having good enough years right now.

I think you're right. Montreal Canadiens love the team and the organization. The problem is, maybe they love them too much. I only voted once (and I didn't even know that I could vote again if I want) and I'm happy like that. Yeah, maybe the NHL said to go vote for our player more often but ... it's getting ridiculous, I think. Where is the thrill of the contest if we're voting again and again? I'm not talking against the Habs fans because I'm one, but if the Habs are embarassed, maybe they should have a talk with the NHL. Anyway. Just my way of thinking. We are all free to do what we want, but as Fans, I don't think we should. Fans' passion is sometime too big. It is able to put police car into fire. Hmmm.

Dintrox's picture
Yesterday I noticed that the NHL put a CAPTCHA box on the ballot. If the NHL had wanted to discourage automated voting, they should have done this to begin with. I've voted a couple times for the Habs. I've also voted for some players from the west I think deserve a shot Luongo, Iginla, and Weber. Look at the west with Red Wings in the lead for 4 of 6 spots and Phaneuf just ahead of Rafalski ... hmmmm

xaverian001's picture
It's too bad Weber is so far back. He's having a crazy good season! Fantasy poolies everywhere should be campaigning to have him start the All-star game. From now on I'm voting only for him on my Western ballot so that other d-men don't get the extra votes.

RiverviewCanadien's picture
I checked to see about comments from the Montréal Canadiens website on the ALL-STAR voting, the only thing I found is the weekly poll. Question: How often do you plan on voting for the All-Star Game? Answers: (with results) 1.None. I've had it with elections. (13.73%) 2.Once is enough. (33.42%) 3.It's the only thing I'll be doing until January! (52.85%) Seems like it is allowed/encouraged (by choice number 3) by the HABS to vote and as much as you can. How you vote, does that really matter? Maybe that should be a new poll on Habs I/O

Odie Cleghorn's picture
"Stupid is as stupid does..."

Fant-HAB-ulous's picture
I know this has been said in almost every comment here, but I want to repeat it again. Not only is it offensive to be called "embarrassing" it's a little hurtful to fans showing their support. You can call it shameful that us fans for voting 10 or more times for our players, when the whole motto of the NHL was to vote for you players and vote often. Call the NHL embarrassing for putting 6 Montreal players on an all-star ballot for an all-star game taking place in Montreal. Should we be impartial? Is this election to an all-star so important that you actually care if the results are fair? They players voted in aren't being asked to run the country, just play hockey. It's a money-making gimmick from start to finish so if I am going to spend the hundreds on dollars to take my nephew to this game,why not have our favorite team well represented...

Dave Stubbs's picture
Casting votes, even many votes, for the Canadiens is what this election is, and expects to be. Carpet-bombing with computer programs to grossly inflate the totals is not supporting your team in my view. Just one man's opinion, one that's shared by a Canadien (more than one, in fact) on the ballot. Dave Stubbs
Habs Inside/Out
Sports Feature Writer, Montreal Gazette

 


Garbo's picture
That's just a problem of the system the NHL implemented. I think it shows extreme dedication, and support, that a fan would go to the lengths of coding a program to circumvent the system and enter the votes. This approach is open to fans from any other team, but for whatever reason you don't see this as support. I guess the fans in other areas are better for not caring so much to go this far to ensure they see their favourite players in the all-star game.

Fant-HAB-ulous's picture
You are right. I don't think the allowing a voting 'bot run for you all night is a good thing. But, I don't think we should discourage people from voting honestly as much as they want. You're article said as many as 20 000 votes were stripped from Kovalev's total and found to be from a 'bot. That's only 10% of his vote. So it is people voting and people voting in large numbers that have the Habs players so far ahead of the pack. Not computer programs.

Dave Stubbs's picture
Agreed completely. If you want to vote over and over again, having the patience and loyalty to do so, then go for it. All I'm saying is, don't employ a digital slave to do it for you. Dave Stubbs
Habs Inside/Out
Sports Feature Writer, Montreal Gazette

 


VintageFan's picture
IF the NHL did not want this stuff to happen, they would have made changes after the Fitzpatrick incident. Fact is they love publicity - any publicity - to increase interest in the ASG. Because the game has become a foolish exercise. What's better than a little controversy to generate interest.

Sparta's picture
You know, Montreal has neither had the All-Star game nor a Stanley Cup in town for 15 years. It's the centennial season. A big chunk of the city went into the streets last year for nothing (a first round win doesn't mean squat, don't get me wrong I was happy too, but jeez!). People are crazy for it here, how could the NHL not see this coming? I agree it is humiliating for legitimacy of the All-Star game, if you take it at it's literal definition. But when was the last time the All-Star game had any legitimacy? The All-Star game is supposed to be a game featuring the best performing players in each position, kind of like if all the people who won Oscars got together and made a movie. Why should fans have a vote? If you give the power to the people, how do you expect them to make the rational choice and not the emotional one? Especially in the centennial season, especially since the game is in Montreal. The only thing that comes to mind is: "DUH!" I honestly think it's dumb from a sports fan's perspective, it takes aways the whole point really, but thats on the NHL. As a Habs fan, I think it will be great for those 6 and the fans present at the All Star game to be able to cheer on their own. You know, it's like when you're older sweet aunt gives you a gift that doesn't really fit you, but how can you be mad at her? Her heart's in the right place... What I find really frustrating is people who criticize the players, coach's without having any knowledge of the game and worse than all, the Booing... You know, the players know they are playing like shit, you don't need to add to it, why don't you encourage them a wee bit, hmm? When you love someone and they are having troubles, to don't degrade them further, you try to be positive for them. People like that shouldn't deserve to go see games. Have a great week everyone! Only passions, great passions, can elevate the soul to great things. Denis Diderot

ddawwidd's picture
I just hate when "fans" do things like that. What's the point of All-Star Game anyway then? If you want to see your favourite players in Montreal in their centennial season - well, there are 41 chances of achieving that. Imagine these were the Leafs fans doing this. Voting Grabovski, Hagman, Steen, Kaberle, Kubina and Toskala for starters. What the reaction would be in Montreal? Oh, yeah, I see it coming - Toskala is WAY to weak to even think about ASG, Price is more deserving. Well, take a look at the infamous Boston beating from two days ago and tell me - is he? It may seem fun or cool in Montreal, where everybody's a Canadiens fan and everybody want to see 6 Habs in the All-Star Game. For me in Poland it's 200 light years away from fun. Every time someone mentions this silly voting, some buddy (a Rangers, a Red Wings, a Leafs, a Name-It-We-Got-It fan) comes up and starts bashing the Habs fans for being homers. What can I say? Only one thing - that I'm truly embarassed. Thanks for that article. For a while I thought everyone in Montreal lost their minds. BTW - I voted for the ASG rosters. Once. With great sympathy to Canadien players. But once is enough. _____________________________________________ It was love at first sight. The first time Koivu saw Tanguay he fell madly in love with him.

xaverian001's picture
Thanks for motivating me to vote again, Dave. I just voted for Koivu, Kovalev, Higgins, Markov, Hamrlik and Price ... again. It is probably the 20th time I've voted for them and I haven't used a javascript once. I voted for them because I want to see my favourite players representing my favourite team at the All star game in Montreal for the Centennial season. It's a special season and there is absolutely no shame in stuffing the ballot box. The NHL allows it so I'm doing it as often as I can. Never have I heard a player say participating in an All Star negatively affected the second half of their season ... with the exception of the goalies who must take a beating on their confidence. By the way, I also voted for a good bunch of Canadian boys in the West: Iginla, Sakic, Getzlaf, Phaneuf, Weber and Luongo. Should Sakic be ashamed of receiving my vote? I didn't vote for him because he is the most deserving. I voted for him because he is a class act, just like the Canadiens organization. I'm sure if he is fortunate enough to garner enough votes to get in the game he will be truly honoured. Anyway, I'm wasting precious time posting here ... I gotta go vote!

Dave Stubbs's picture
Great reply. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Dave Stubbs
Habs Inside/Out
Sports Feature Writer, Montreal Gazette

 


Ian Cobb's picture
dp

Ian Cobb's picture
Some people just don,t get it, and that includes the NHL. Two words that are disappearing from our society "respect and integrity". To many people, not only in sport have never discovered the magic within that comes from giving of themselves for others. One way to be fair to the league, fans, and players is to give each player and coach, on all 30 teams that has played or coached in this league for a full year, 7 votes. 1 vote for each position on the ice and 1 vote for an all star coach. This will at least insure that the men that most deserve the honour get it from the people that really know. This nonsense of people voting for the colour of a players eyes is not what this honour is all about. I hold the NHL totally responsible for the lack of protection, integrity and respect that has been taken out of this marvelous sport, including head protection.

coachdoug's picture
Dave...good article I agree this is a farce. Why don't they just open it up to all players instead of "selecting" based on last years criteria? In the age of computers that would be so easy and allow the current good players to be on the ballot. Also they should have a sytem where it's not just the internet fan vote but a pool of sports writers and maybe current coaches. Split it three ways and then the weight of the other two would even it out if this happens. That would make it a true all star game and it would restore credibility. I like the All Star game especially the skills competition. The best players should be there though...not last years best, the current best.

While it does look bad, I can't blame Habs fans. The NHL has created this monster, (see Fitzpatrick, Rory), and now they must deal with it. So while they sit around supporting ownership groups that struggle to meet their payrolls, just so they can box out guys like Jim Balsillie who want to bring teams to viable Canadian markets, they can add this debacle to the list. I somehow doubt their claims anyways... they're simply concerned about limited U.S. based team representation. Bill Daly essentially said as much last week on one of the Canadian sports networks when, and I'm paraphrasing, he stated that it would be better for the NHL if no Canadian teams made the playoffs.

We, as fans, are being encouraged to vote for our favourite players. As Habs fans we are passionate about our players, the game is in Montreal on the occasion of the 100th anniversary of the team. Who else would we vote for? Voting for the All-Star team is a popularity contest, we are not voting to put people in the Hall of Fame. As fans, we are having fun with the process. It is another way of showing support for our players. I don't feel that I am "stuffing the ballot box", I am voting in the legitimately prescribed manner. After each set of votes go in I am being asked if I want to vote again, why wouldn't I? This game is little more than a skills contest and a game of shinny. I would rather see my favourite players participating.

howtathor's picture
The league has intituted a code box which you have to fill in manually in order to cast your vote. This should negate the automated voting scripts. Personally, I feel they would have gotten in anyways because of the fact that you can vote as many times as you like (I think I'm up to 10). Speaking of which, if the NHL is so sensitive about this subject, why run the vote like a third world election? Why allow people to vote more than once? The culprits are only excercising their democratic right as defined by the NHL. If I could have voted more that 10 times I would have. I'm only limited by time and patience. If I didn't have a life I would just sit here and vote all day! I think the NHL is at fault for allowing this to take place. It's been like that in MLB for years. Surely they can come up with a more equitable system. I think by creating this mess they have no right to complain. Why not have six Canadiens starting the All Star game in Montreal in their 100th season. The playing field is level, open to all fans of all teams and maybe if they cared as much they would vote their players in too. In Montreal hockey has always been a religion and it is hard for the rest of the league to perceive this. I personally will be there to cheer them on, the starting six!

Kristopher7's picture
So what's the deal? I vote a few times a day as do THOUSANDS of others... are there really douches using software to mass vote?

jabber39's picture
This article stinks...if the NHL didn't learn from the Fitzpatrick incident its their pickle...they could have programmed that its 1 vote per fan...you give Habs Fans a shot at voting as many times as they want on 6 of there own and you call them shameful cause they take advantage of it?...Stubby cmon!!! We support our own!!! It's called Pride my friend!! Forever Proud!!! GO HABS GO!!! EVEN AT THE ALLSTAR GAME IN OUR OWN HOUSE!!! Knowing is Half the Battle...

The Teacher's picture
Yeah, I thought it was a bit "whatever" that people were voting automatically. My opinion is that the NHL is run by idiots. End of story. People are running red lights because no one ever enforces the law. Schools are falling apart because there is no maintenance. Hospitals are overflowing because there are not enough nurses, doctors, supplies, and beds. Why is this happening, because a select few think they can abuse their powers. Same thing here, a select few are abusing the power of voting, but then again, people will always think like they do in the examples above, their attitude being if nothing is done, and they are allowed to do it (the NHL as well by being idiots), then why not. LOL, I'm laughing right now reading this post...so ludicrous and true all at the same time. My suggested overtime format and other sports talk

The situation is laughable, but it just proves our dominance as a hockey market. Just think of how mad people in TO must be...i love just thinking about it. Listen, give an alcoholic booze and he'll drink...give a habs fan a chance to say 'we're the Habs and we f'n rock'...and we will.....I blame it on the league for giving us this change. And Mr. Stubbs, being that you come in contact with these guys on a reg. basis...plz tell them we don't mean to embarrass them, we're just proud to be a part of the Habs. It will always be the Habs vs. the opposing team + the refs + the goal judge...in Toronto. Yet we have 24 cups and counting.

Garbo's picture
Ridiculous article.

The Teacher's picture
Thanks for your post. Quite descriptive. My suggested overtime format and other sports talk

Garbo's picture
Doesn't deserve more of a comment than that.

Got2BHabs's picture
Why was this a post on HIO on the 13th? "As of 7:05 am ET today, the six Canadiens on the ballot for January's All-Star Game in Montreal are atop their categories by a healthy margin, Habs fans clearly keen on seeing six – can you imagine that? – of their favourites on the Eastern Conference starting lineup. (Geez, their numbers are so high that you'd swear they were a blogger who's hired a chimp to hit the Refresh key a thousand times a day to spike the hits to their site.) We've never been the biggest fan of the popularity contest that is the All-Star Game, but it is what it is. If the NHL is going to encourage fans to stuff the ballot box, why not do it for the team that will host the event? Go here to vote often, as you've already been doing, and good luck to Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay, Markov, Komisarek and Price. And to Roman Hamrlik, who's garnering decent support as a write-in candidate." Isn't that encouraging Habs fans to "stuff" the ballot box? Now, three days later we shouldn't vote for anyone other than Markov? It's not like it's its the MLB where the All star game actually means something. I've voted for 3 of the 6 probably about a dozen times because I find them entertaining and that is all the All Star game is, entertainment. If a fan wants to vote for all of their favorite players, I find nothing wrong with that because the game has no real bearing on anything. I do however have a problem with the computer generated votes and think that the NHL should have wiped the voting clean when they implemented the security question. ___________________________________________________________________________ "We're quick, we're exciting, we're on the attack and we're ready to score" - Bob Gainey

GHG33's picture
I don't see the problem. All 6 Habs will START the game, but they won't play the whole game themselves, you will still get to see the other "top" players in the league (crosby etc.). Anyways, its the NHL's fault for allowing multi-votes in the first place. Drive For 25 Is Alive!

Kaptain K's picture
A) the NHL was kinda stupid to not think about this little problem.. B) does this show that Habs fans are smarter than the rest...if we were the only ones making these voting things... C) i probably voted 50 times...but all by myself..the old fashion way..clicking. D) we'd still be leading anyways, so not a big deal, it should be the NHL who's embarrassed a couple of fans out-thought a professional sports league

Exit716's picture
Habs fans should vote for their opponents.

RiverviewCanadien's picture
Absolutely Stupid Article...why the heck would the organization be embarrassed? HABS are celebrating 100 years...they announced 6 MTL players on the ballot. What team has the most passionate fans but the Montréal Canadiens? Honestly what do you think was going to happen in the age of the PC with this type of thing (online voting)...get a grip, yes it is silly but the game is a joke anyways... And just the for record I voted once...and yes it was for ALL the MTL players named...oh well does that make me less of a "Hockey" fan because I am not voting the "Best" players (i.e. Ovy, Crosby, or whoever else is supposed to be an all-star), or even if I do know more about PCs than the old, retired, or dead players of the game? I sure hope not...because I am just as passionate about the sport as the next guy.

Exit716's picture
Do I get to vote between your opinion or Mr. Stubbs? Hmmm...Tough choice...An internet poster or someone that has worked at a major daily newspaper for 30 some years and an award winner at that. Mr. Stubbs, Thanks for your insight on this site and the email you sent to me in the early days of Habs Inside Out after one of my Ronald Corey rants.. Keep up the outstanding work. It's greatly appreciated.

twocents's picture
Show some respect. You can disagree with the views expressed but you don't need to use language like that. Besides, if you read the whole article you will find that Dave Stubbs suggests the game is a joke anyway and maybe it is simply getting the respect it currently commands. If players or others in the organization feel it's an embarrassment, why shouldn't that be reported? For that matter, the moment the league decided to delete votes it became a story that should be covered by any reputable media source covering the Habs. We're just lucky that a writer as accomplished as Dave Stubbs was assigned to the job. I'll give you some advice. If reading beyond a headline or reading more than a quick skim is too much for you, don't bother sharing your comments beyond anyone in the room with you.

RiverviewCanadien's picture
Heres some advice for you, RELAX!!! Yes I can read and to your surprise I read the whole article as well...And to be honest was the language really that harsh (because I wrote stupid)? I am sure I have read articles from other columnists on this site badger the players before/after games, call them out, etc. Wow, see everything has to be news about this team...hey do you know what the team ate for breakfast this morning? Let me know when you find out, becuase it sure helped Kovy in the shootout :P

twocents's picture
Riverview, You didn't just write 'stupid', somewhere in your post. You began it with'Absolutely Stupid Article'. I think that is disrespectful and a person should be willing to back up that sort of statement. I don't have a problem with the word stupid. You could have said,'the NHL is being stupid by allowing multiple votes', or 'I think it's stupid for people to be surprised by this' or even, 'I think it's stupid that people are even talking about this' or "I think the hockey team is being stupid in being embarrassed by this". All of these would have been simply expressing your opinion on the matter but you chose to denigrate the article itself and having read it, I can't see how anyone would call it stupid. I think people relate to internet posting in a very bizarre way some times. This is a public forum and while formality is not required, civility is appreciated, especially where there is no provocation. Anyway, I see you and Mr. Stubbs have had a fruitful exchange and that is really the best outcome. Had I known that was going to happen at the time, I would not have responded to you in the first place. BTW, I did not suggest you can't read. I suggested you chose not to read the whole article. I assumed that because I find it unfathomable that anyone could read the whole thing and then call it stupid. Even if they don't agree with the point of view or the decision to write it. Before you jump to conclusions over what I think is newsworthy and fair game, let me state that I agree the press can go too far into the irrelevant to find a story. However, I have never read anything by Dave Stubbs that has remotely crossed that line. In the end, remember that the comments section on this site is open to all and is intended to allow people to express their views; what comes with that territory is that others will comment on your comments, if they see fit.

RiverviewCanadien's picture
Thanks for your two-cents twocents. Well myself and Stubs called a truce and no hard feelings were felt by myself and hopefully none by Stubs (he is grown man and I don't think he needs to have posters back him up, if he has a problem he will let you know, he did with me, point taken). We are both allowed to have an opinion, as well as yourself, and in my opinion, that is what makes this site awesome, the bickering and debates over what is best, what we like best, who wrote a great article/post, etc , etc. No-one should be embarrassed or feel bad about the outcome (especially the team, they should be proud they have such a fan base, this shows that people think they are ALL ALL-STARS). The point of the ALL-STAR game is popularity votes (if it was abouthaving the best of the best in each position, hitting would be allowed), some fans are doing it by honestly voting while others are doing it via "bots" or javascript or however you want to call it. To me, Canadiens fans are supporting the team in a very clever way to ensure they see their favorite players in the game.

twocents's picture
To be honest Riverview, I think the NHL is being lazy, naive and slow witted(so stupid) about the whole matter. If they think automatic voting is undesirable, they should have taken steps to avoid it. They are the ones who should be embarrassed. I just took offense to Dave's article being called stupid. But, he popped in and addressed that with you and that's best. To be clear, I had written my reply to you before I saw his. However, I did not delete mine afterwards, because I thought it would be valuable to know that not only he took some offense to your comment. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to respond. You are right, the interaction in this forum is what makes it great.

RiverviewCanadien's picture
And to be honest to you, there are a number of others who shared the sentiment with me. The entire article was not stupid (by any means), just the whole thing about saying fans and the team should be embarrassed. And making pot shots about some people knowing more about technology than dead/retired hockey players (there will always be fans there for the good times and not the bad, but not everyone is like that). There are soooo many players in the NHL, past/present, how can a person who does not write about this stuff be expected to know about it all.

Dave Stubbs's picture
Do you believe the Canadiens want to see six starters on the team? Honestly? Here's a flash for you – they'd love to have six players on the team. Surely it's not by accident that in this centennial year, the Canadiens have players at every position on the ballot. But having all six voted as starters in such a ludicrous manner is not what the team nor the NHL nor the Canadiens players themselves want. And trust me on this, being someone who speaks to the players on and off the record in and out of the dressing room. Thanks, however, for thinking that this column is so stupid that it deserves upper-case abuse in your opening remark. Dave Stubbs
Habs Inside/Out
Sports Feature Writer, Montreal Gazette

 


Nahlsy's picture
No, it's what the FANS want. You remember the fans right? The hundreds of thousands of people that give the players, the reporters, the owners etc a job in the first place? Why should anyone care what the fans want though? They opened the voting for the fans to choose who they would like to see and the Habs fans voted the most because they wanted to see their players more. For anyone to call it an embarrassment is a crock. We should now be embarrassed for loving our team and wanting to see our players in our building on our night? The true crock is the NHL pretending we get to vote for this stuff and then taking our votes and throwing them in the garbage and having reporters stick their noses in the air at us and berate us for showing interest in a league that clearly wants nothing more than to urinate on all of us every chance they get, especially if we're Canadian since Bettman and his cronies clearly HATE HATE HATE Canada!!!! I'm sick of this crud.

RiverviewCanadien's picture
I apologize Dave (I do love reading your articles in the Gazette and think you are a great sports writer). I never meant any disrespect, but you know as well the next guy, the media in montreal is the biggest problem the team faces, negative or positive. Really though are they embarrassed or is that the "news story" that is being reported? I bet the whole team laughs about it, because they know it is a joke game anwways. But like it was stated in the "Other Wing" how awesome will that be when the starting lines are announced and we have the starting line in the EAST....wicked! So don't take my comments to heart, you are an award winning sports journalist and I am just a passionate Canadiens fan (who voted once, in the honest way and take days off from work waiting on hold for hours just for the hope to get tickets to a game that I have to drive like 10 hours to see...shame on me). Like I said, what do you think was going to happen. Cripes the city riots when they win game 7 in first round playoffs. Give some MTL fans a PC and the power to have MTL involved in something...BAM! you know it was going to happen... I wish everything does not have to be "Front Page" news when it comes to this team... I never meant what you wrote was stupid, but the fact that this crap happens (i.e. damn illegal voters, worse than the Florida screw up a few years back) and it becomes news and votes are dismissed.

Dave Stubbs's picture
No offence taken, Riverview. Canadiens fans have a passion for their team unlike any other. Maybe I'm just puzzled by the motivations of some (and I have no idea who these people are, so this isn't a personal poke at anyone) who would cast hundreds upon hundreds of votes for guys we get to see 82 times per season, and whose play in the All-Star Game won't resemble hockey at all. (OK, who wants to be the first to heckle me because I'll have to cover it?!) Always fun commenting with you folks... Dave Stubbs
Habs Inside/Out
Sports Feature Writer, Montreal Gazette

 


RiverviewCanadien's picture
Thanks for being a great sport (and for writing articles about the best damn hockey team) GO HABS GO!

twocents's picture
Sorry Dave, I started typing my reply before yours was posted. I think I'll leave it anyway.

The Rory Fitzpatrick business was all in 2006-07, not last season, btw.

Robert L's picture

ross's picture
The ballot stuffing is silly and stupid, but it's being done by Canadiens fans probably because we're the only ones who care. No need for the organization to feel particularly embarrassed. If we're going to cast blame, I cast it squarely and exclusively at the feet of the NHL whiz-kids who implemented the online ballot system. Anyone with any kind of experience in online systems like these should have seen from the get-go that ballot stuffing would be trivial to implement for anybody who has a moderate understanding of Javascript and a free weekend. When you allow votes from a single account to be limited only by the time of day (is it one vote per hour? I haven't checked), then you can't be too surprised when somebody realizes that hey, instead of logging on to this website myself every hour and clicking this button, why not just use a computer to, y'know, automate the process.

B's picture
Is it really that taxing for a professional athlete to play in an all-star game?

Dave Stubbs's picture
In his hometown, it's a hell of a lot of work. Not necessarily on the ice, but the myriad related obligations. Don't think for a second that these guys wouldn't like to get outta Dodge for a few days to recharge their batteries for the stretch run to the playoffs. Dave Stubbs
Habs Inside/Out
Sports Feature Writer, Montreal Gazette

 


upintheblues's picture
logically speaking, i agree, but so far i can't say we've really benefitted from multi-day breaks.

showey47's picture
agreed, i honestly want to see none of our players in the all-star game. I would rather see them resting themselves physically and mentally for the playoff stretch. Instead of playing in a game that nobody cares about.

The whole damn All Star thing has become one huge embarrassment to the sport of hockey. Habs fans might as well have some fun with it. And, maybe put a stake in it for good!