Canadiens change injury-reporting policy; Laraque suffering from bad back, not groin

posted by Dave Stubbs at 17h29 EST on Jan 14


From The Gazette's Herb Zurkowsky, who covered practice today in Brossard:

Growing weary of widespread rumours and gossip surrounding injured players, Canadiens coach Guy Carbonneau on Wednesday said anyone sidelined indefinitely will now have the nature of their injuries released to the media.

No longer will the team report such players have upper- or lower-body injuries.

Carbonneau said the decision was reached following a meeting between himself, general manager Bob Gainey, vice-president (hockey operations) Julien BriseBois and the team's communications department.



To that extent, injured winger Georges Laraque has revealed he's suffering from a back, not groin, injury as has widely been reported. The veteran, signed as a free-agent this season, has played in only 17 of Montreal's 42 games this season – none since Dec. 21, against Carolina. Laraque has two assists.

He has skated three times on his own this week, and believes he'll be able to resume practising with the team in another week.

Meanwhile, captain Saku Koivu, who practised with the Canadiens on Monday, has suffered a setback in his recovery from a high ankle sprain. He wasn't on the ice yesterday, and isn't expected to return until this weekend.

Carbonneau also said goaltender Carey Price, recovering from an ankle injury, should be held out of the Jan. 25 All-Star Game unless he returns first to play for the Canadiens. Price was voted to the starting team by hockey fans.

The Canadiens, coming off a 3-1 defeat – only their second in 12 games – Tuesday at Boston, entertain Nashville Thursday night at the Bell Centre. The Predators recorded a 2-0 shutout victory Tuesday at Toronto.


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Tom S.'s picture
Submitted by Tom S. on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 17:29.
Am I the only one who wishes we'd gotten someone else now that we know this? The Boogeyman would have had a healthy groin....or back....and been meaner. Laraque's too nice of a guy for this job.

HABZ24's picture
Submitted by HABZ24 on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 13:27.
well about time. honesty is the best policy.whats with the ankle injurys.saku,price. hope we dont play down again and lose to the crappy teams.

xaverian001's picture
Submitted by xaverian001 on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 11:11.
How refreshing!!!

Andrew Sharpe's picture
Submitted by Andrew Sharpe on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 06:14.
Anyone else feel Komi & Markov are the best defensive pairing in the league? The only real argument I'll accept is Lidstrom & Rafalski. Boyle & Blake are good, as are Niedermayer & Pronger. You could make an argument for Suter & Weber too, but you'd be wrong.

The Cat's picture
Submitted by The Cat on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 06:54.
I dont know, could be just me, but 7th game of the Stanley Cup finals, last minute of play with a one goal lead, Id want Gorges and Hamrlik out there.

Xtrahabsfan's picture
Submitted by Xtrahabsfan on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 03:22.
Here's my take on the Len Barrie(new owner of the lightning)reason for moving Vinny.Len made a bundle of money on Vancouver Island when he decided he and his family needed a golf coarse they could go to together and together with the Cortnall bro's and others turned that dream into Bear Mountain,which kicked *** during the boom making Len and partners ALL KINDS OF CASH,BIG TIME,RIGHT PLACE RIGHT TIME and proved his true calling was not as a pro N.H.Lr but as a real estate mongol that along the way ,thru Bear Mountains development pissed of the First Nations people as well as a lot of the surrounding inhabitants of Langford,b.c.That though brought controversy ,Len WAS ON THE NEWS QUITE OFTEN,and gave this construction worker insight into his habits(ego ,etc)He's a tough guy alright and don't take NO for an answer.Any how ,the financial world has fallen faster than any time ever recorded and trillions of dollars have done a vanishing act that makes David Blaine jealous,some of that most likely Len's ,which explains yesterday's sale of Bear mountain to an Arab(Bahrain i) consortium for around 500 million ,yes Hab fans ...the Pot sturs and in this New World any thing is possible....

Submitted by Hockey11 on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 11:27.
Holy malapropism!

mrhabby's picture
Submitted by mrhabby on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 11:08.
len sounds like a real nasty piece of work. "master of my domain"

HabsFanInVictoria's picture
Submitted by HabsFanInVictoria on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 03:45.
Len is trash... he's not respected in Victoria

Xtrahabsfan's picture
Submitted by Xtrahabsfan on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 03:08.
Here's my take on the Len Barrie(new owner of the lightning)reason for moving Vinny.Len made a bundle of money on Vancouver Island when he decided he and his family needed a golf coarse they could go to together and together with the Cortnall bro's and others turned that dream into Bear Mountain,which kicked *** during the boom making Len and partners ALL KINDS OF CASH,BIG TIME,RIGHT PLACE RIGHT TIME and proved his true calling was not as a pro N.H.Lr but as a real estate mongol that along the way ,thru Bear Mountains development pissed of the First Nations people as well as a lot of the surrounding inhabitants of Langford,b.c.That though brought controversy ,Len WAS ON THE NEWS QUITE OFTEN,and gave this construction worker insight into his habits(ego ,etc)He's a tough guy alright and don't take NO for an answer.Any how ,the financial world has fallen faster than any time ever recorded and trillions of dollars have done a vanishing act that makes David Blaine jealous,some of that most likely Len's ,which explains yesterday's sale of Bear mountain to an Arab(Bahrain i) consortium for around 500 million ,yes Hab fans ...the Pot sturs and in this New World any thing is possible....

The Cat's picture
Submitted by The Cat on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 03:00.
I dont know why L.A. or Chicago are even considering this. Both have done such a good job in establishing a solid young foundation, the future is bright for them 2 teams, why destroy it? The Rangers however, I would watch out for. They dont have much to give on D, but they been slowly sliding, making them likely to take the gamble.

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 03:02.
Take a look at the age of Montreal's core players when you get a chance... :)

The Cat's picture
Submitted by The Cat on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 03:09.
Well for me personally, no forward is untouchable because we have so many. But the D, thats another story. Tampa doesnt have the luxury to go into rebuilding mode, they need half and half about: 2-3 good players ready to make an impact now and some prospects for example.

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 03:16.
True. But I think your comment about the future being bright for both LA and Chicago also applies to Montreal. We're just a bit more fortunate because our guys (Sergei Kostitsyn, Carey Price, Maxim Lapierre, Guillaume Latendresse, Max Pacioretty) have developed quicker than we expected. The pickings in Hamilton are a bit slimmer for a couple of years at the forward ranks, so what you see now is what you've got to play with. I'm comfortable going forwards with this team, because its only getting better.

The Cat's picture
Submitted by The Cat on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 03:26.
The team is good, it needs a defenseman more than anything, to get over the hump. The team as it is cant go all the way I dont think. Its good that Gainey as addressed this as his priority.

lefreak's picture
Submitted by lefreak on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:27.
big al on hardcore hockey talk just said tampa would maybe do it for Subban, Markov and a 1st rounder. i think this trade has as much chance of happening as the habs actually lifting the cup this year.

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:49.
Well, that would go a long way to solve their biggest issue, a crappy defence corps, so that one makes some more sense to me. That being said, emphatic no. Markov is not as good as Lecavalier, no question about it. But his skill set is MUCH harder to find than Lecavalier's, and probably much more crucial to any success the Habs might have.

The Cat's picture
Submitted by The Cat on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:38.
Im all for Vinny coming but I cant condone unloading a major defenseman, thatd really hurt us. Im not for Gorges leaving either.

J. Ambrose's picture
Submitted by J. Ambrose on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:35.
For Markov? Either they're breathing deep Miami street meth-cocaine or they are intentionally intending to kill this thing in its crib. I wouldn't trade Markov for anyone. To you from falling hands, we throw the torch.

Kristopher7's picture
Submitted by Kristopher7 on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:37.
you said it J. "breathing deep Miami street meth-cocaine" Markov? They can go ... well you know ... they can do it to themselves.

lefreak's picture
Submitted by lefreak on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:42.
don't shoot the messenger. al also said that he didn't think this was going to happen at all. I don't know though, he has no hair, and we all know that the bald can't be trusted.

The Teacher's picture
Submitted by The Teacher on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:07.
I'm starting to waver on this Vinny thing.... somebody smack me! freaking albatross... but still......

lefreak's picture
Submitted by lefreak on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 01:26.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28642788/

Submitted by Timo (not verified) on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 01:22.
And what is the reason for disclosing the player's injury exactly? Are they getting to sensitive from all the groin jokes?

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:10.
Ugh...John Tavares got hurt tonight in the CHL top prospects game...shoulder injury. (http://www.tsn.ca/chl/story/?id=263218&lid=sublink01&lpos=headlines_main) Sounds like he was a marked man in that game, which is pretty ridiculous. You can bet Dale Hunter and the Knights will be FURIOUS if he's out for any significant amount of time.

Submitted by YesterdaysPapers (not verified) on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:10.
so I am watching AC 360 and they are talking about this dude named Obama. who? whut? Does he know Vin? can he get him for us?

Submitted by YesterdaysPapers (not verified) on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:10.
double

J. Ambrose's picture
Submitted by J. Ambrose on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:04.
Anyone see Ovechkin tonight against the Pens? God, I'd take him over anyone in the league; even over Crosby. He reminds me more and more of the Rocket. Unstoppable and MEAN. To you from falling hands, we throw the torch.

Willy the bum's picture
Submitted by Willy the bum on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 01:20.
If this is some kind of dream that Ovechkin would be with the Habs, I still couldn't believe it if that happens... ---------- "We all wore the same costume as Maurice Richard did; the red-white-and-blue costume of the Montréal Canadiens, the best hockey team in the world." - Roch Carrier

ReverendJim's picture
Submitted by ReverendJim on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 09:29.
Ovechkin would thrive in Montreal conditions! Imagine that...21000 screaming fans and Ovechkin, in a Habs jersey, scores a hat trick. Or scores the game winning goal in game 7 of the Eastern finals and throws us in the Stanley Cup finals! Me thinks he would like it...but I don't blame him for signing that ridiculous contract in Washington. He secured his future. Now, he can demand a trade to Mtl...what would we give up?!?!!?!? hahaha...its a dream for sure!

t1tan5's picture
Submitted by t1tan5 on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 23:55.
Vinny = Hossa v.2009. It's not going to happen.

Submitted by Yeats on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 23:44.
23 guys with balls will get you infinately closer to a Stanley Cup than any marquee player will on his own. Please Bob, make the right choices. Hate to admit it, but Conn Smythe was right.

Number31's picture
Submitted by Number31 on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 09:35.
Exactly. ONE MAN does not make a team. If that were in fact the case, Tampa Bay would be in the top of the league. And one superstar forward who tends to spend more time on ice whining after someone has checked him in a routine fashion (see Komisarek in the last game vs TB) does not warrant a trade of half the current core and core future.

TripleX's picture
Submitted by TripleX on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:43.
It is a much different league than it was during the Conn Smythe days my friend. The turnover rate with free agency has changed the way a team has to be built. In the old days you would draft a young player and nurture him in the system, and if lucky you would have a great player for a long time. In the new NHL, just when a player hits his prime he is eligible for free agency. That is why great young players are locked up in long term deals, and the reason superstars like Vinny becoming available are extremely rare occurrences. A top 10 player in his prime becoming available on the open market simply does not happen a lot. The odds against the Habs ever drafting a player like Vinny is huge, BG cannot let this opportunity pass him by. I am sure a lot of you have become attached to the players mentioned in the potential trade, but they are replaceable. Vinny is a SUPERSTAR like a Lafluer and the upside is HUGE. Having a player like him on the team will make everyone else up their game.

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:01.
Couldn't agree with you more. Team chemistry is crucial, as the team can often exceed the sum of its parts. Give me 23 guys that execute the system and play hard, and you've got as good a shot at the Stanley Cup as anybody else. Superstars moving to other teams in the past 30 years have not produced that many Stanley Cup winners. I can think of one instance, the Ron Francis acquisition by Pittsburgh. Anybody help me here?

twocents's picture
Submitted by twocents on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:22.
Chris didn't you play this game the other day? Ray Bourque? Frank Mahovolich? Chris Pronger? Rob Blake? Butch Goring? I don't know if they all fit your criteria, but my point is, it happens. If the ingrediants are right, it can work. Not all the time, often because the deal makers aren't paying enough attention, but sometimes.

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:43.
Sorry, my bad...should have pointed out mid-season moves. Ray Bourque did not win the year he was traded, but the following year. Chris Pronger was traded to Anaheim before the season, not during the season. Blake fits the criterion. Goring wasn't really a superstar...less than a point per game player, although a very good defensive player. He certainly wasn't stepping into an Islanders team loaded with guys like Bossy, Potvin and Trottier as THE guy like Lecavalier would be here in Montreal. Mahovolich counts. EDIT: How could I forget Patrick Roy? Doh! So we're up to four mid-season acquisitions of superstar-calibre players in 38 years that have panned out for a Stanley Cup victory that season, five if we count Goring.

Submitted by ebk on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 01:44.
can you tell me the number of teams who didn't acquire a superstar or whatever your criteria is at the mid-season/trade deadline who failed to win the Stanley Cup?

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:19.
Sure...lots of them. I understand the point...we'll never know until its done. I just feel its way too much to give up for what I see as no improvement in the odds. For those who might be interested, here is the list of players acquired during the season by the past 20 Stanley Cup champions. I will leave it to others to decide how meaningful the acquisitions were or weren't towards winning the Stanley Cup...we'll never know if it would have happened without the acquisitions. 2007-08 - Detroit: Brad Stuart 2006-07 - Anaheim: no mid-season deals 2005-06 - Carolina: Doug Weight, Mark Recchi 2003-04 - Tampa Bay: Darryl Sydor, Stan Neckar 2002-03 - New Jersey: Pascal Rheaume, Richard Smehlik 2001-02 - Detroit: Jiri Slegr 2000-01 - Colorado: Rob Blake, Steve Reinprecht, Bryan Muir 1999-00 - New Jersey: Claude Lemieux (70 games), Alex Mogilny, Vladimir Malakhov 1998-99 - Dallas: Dave Manson, Derek Plante, Joel Bouchard 1997-98 - Detroit: Dmitri Mironov, Jamie Macoun 1996-97 - Detroit: Brendan Shanahan (played 79 games), Tomas Sandstrom 1995-96 - Colorado: Patrick Roy, Sandis Ozolinsh, Mike Keane, Dave Hannan 1994-95 - New Jersey: Neal Broten, Shawn Chambers, Danton Cole 1993-94 - New York Rangers: Nick Kypreos, Brian Noonan, Stephane Matteau, Glenn Anderson, Craig Mactavish, 1992-93 - Montreal: Gary Leeman, Rob Ramage 1991-92 - Pittsburgh: Rick Tocchet, Kjell Samuelsson, Jeff Chycrun, Ken Wregget 1990-91 - Pittsburgh: Ulf Samuelsson, Ron Francis, Larry Murphy, Scott Young, Jiri Hrdina, Gordie Roberts, Peter Taglianetti, Grant Jennings 1989-90 - Edmonton: Petr Klima, Joe Murphy, Adam Graves, Reijo Ruotsalainen 1988-89 - Calgary: Brian MacLellan 1987-88 - Edmonton: Craig Simpson, Dave Hannan, Keith Acton, Geoff Courtnall, Steve Dykstra, Chris Joseph,

The Teacher's picture
Submitted by The Teacher on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:28.
Chris is an encyclopedia.

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:29.
LOL...hardly. I just get bored enough to list these things for people. :)

The Teacher's picture
Submitted by The Teacher on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:30.
That doesn't escape the fact ;) The striking thing is that most of the players acquired were role players. We have a role for a #4 defenceman!

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:40.
That's always been my impression too...the successful teams are finding the best available fits for the roles that they need to fill. I know that many here think that a centreman with size is our biggest need, so I will respect their opinions on that front. I personally think we are okay down the middle, and could be exceptionally strong if Plekanec picks up his play. The need for me is a defenceman, and we have the defensive prospects to pick one up. That is the no-brainer trade, as far as I am concerned.

twocents's picture
Submitted by twocents on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:50.
First priority is certainly defense. This is a matter of unique opportunity.

Gr8stFranchizEvr's picture
Submitted by Gr8stFranchizEvr on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:48.
after looking over your cup/trade list, i am more convinced than ever that Mtl needs a top-4 D to go deep in the playoffs. Vinny can stay in sunny Florida for another 10 years and build 3 more hospitals while he's at it - but he should dedicate at least one wing to the Lightning organization for their fine contractual patronage!

The Teacher's picture
Submitted by The Teacher on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:44.
I'm not opposed to picking up size down the middle, but I agree that it is not our most pressing concern, for the moment. Pleks DEFINITELY needs to pick up his play on the offensive side of things. I've always loved his defensive game but if you want to be a top 2 ceneter in the NHL, gotta bring a few points along with that solid D.

twocents's picture
Submitted by twocents on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 03:00.
I'm done gentleman, great discussion. This is why I love this site. Teach, I was wondering if you were going to respond to my second email from yesterday. There were a couple of questions in there I would be very interested in knowing your thoughts on. Good night.

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 03:08.
One last point for me before the night claims me: regarding the unique opportunity aspect of the Lecavalier rumours, I agree whole-heartedly that this is a unique opportunity. My worry is that many of us fans (and maybe even Gillett, although I hope Gainey's patience and knowledge will win the day regardless of what decision they make) are also factoring in this 100th anniversary hoopla and want to go for broke this year, perhaps clouding our judgement. A trade for Lecavalier would definitely weaken the ability to trade for a defenceman later...the Habs are not so rich in prospects and picks (especially in a year that we host the draft) that they can afford to get both Lecavalier AND a top four defenceman. I'm also out for the night...it was definitely a great discussion. Thanks a ton, and apologies for the length of the posts (some day I will learn the definition of "concise").

twocents's picture
Submitted by twocents on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 03:16.
Hey, I've no problem with the length of your posts. However, being a two fingered wonder my response times can lag. I agree about the 100th anniversary, but I also think, if anyone can keep a calm head it will be Mr. Gainey. Thanks right back at'ya.

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:52.
But there's the catch...does Pleks really need to be top 2 centre this year for Montreal to contend? We're doing just fine with Koivu (when he's in the lineup, and he certainly shows up in the playoffs) and Lang (not too far off Lecavalier's pace). Its actually funny, but Plekanec's struggles, while frustrating to us fans, have been covered up by Lang's strong play. And that is why team depth is so nice to have.

twocents's picture
Submitted by twocents on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 01:14.
Shanahan, '97 in Detroit? Glenn Anderson, '93 Rangers? Pierre Larouche, '78 Canadiens?

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 01:47.
Glenn Anderson was so far into his decline by that point that he doesn't work for me. Shanahan is a good one...picked up two games into the season, so he had more time to mesh, but I am splitting hairs. Larouche works. Interesting recurring theme with these successful trades...they were mostly good leaders themselves that stepped into teams with a strong, clear-cut leadership hierarchy. Francis stepped into Pittsburgh with Mario Lemieux Shanahan into Detroit behind Steve Yzerman, Nicklas Lidstrom and Sergei Fedorov Larouche into Montreal with a galaxy of the game's greats Mahovolich behind Jean Beliveau, Henri Richard and Jacques Laperriere Roy to Colorado with Joe Sakic, Claude Lemieux (this one is marginal...that was a young team) Blake to Colorado behind Roy, Sakic and Forsberg So another question: is Montreal's internal leadership hierarchy, which I would guess to be Koivu & Kovalev at the top with Komisarek and Higgins (who would be leaving) be able to absorb the arrival of a player like Vincent Lecavalier so seamlessly as some of the above examples? Given the perceptions of a somewhat fractious relationship between Koivu and Kovalev, how would they welcome the bright light of Lecavalier, who is not generally considered a strong leader, into the room? These are things I can't even begin to guess at, but I do have a lot of faith in Bob Gainey, the best leader of his generation, to have a much better handle on.

The Teacher's picture
Submitted by The Teacher on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:37.
Great read. Love your posts, Chris. As to the question of the internal leadership hierarchy, I think Koivu is at the top of the totem pole. With Komisarek and Lappy fast taking leadership roles. I don't know why I say that but he has matured before our eyes. Hamrlik is a solid veteran as are Dandy, Breeze and Begin. We have no shortage of guys who can deal with the pressure. I'm not all that opposed to pleks in a deal because we have to give up something to get something, but the sticking point to me is Gorges. Robert L. says if that's the only sticking point then it's not worth thinking about really (I'm mincing words but the gist of it is true), but look at Gorges +/-, it is an astounding +15, a full 5 points ahead of all-star Markov, and yes, Likehoy, I know Markov plays against 1st liners etc, etc ;) He is signed at a great rate of 1 million for the next 3 years. Give Weber if you have to, not Gorges. He also has a great relationship with Price and others from the looks of it. I think it would be tough for the Habs to overcome losing Higgins, and Pleky, but to lose Gorges too, I just don't see it happening. P.S. Subban doesn't help either. I'm blah about the picks since they will be low anyways. That's my 2 bits. Jesus how do I leave out the contract...my god, how am I even considering this....Crosby yes, Ovechkin yes....

twocents's picture
Submitted by twocents on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:39.
Teach, I agree that Gorges is a hard pill to swallow. Having said that, I don't think the perceived value of him, from the outside, is so high that he could not be replaced by someone else, like Weber, as you suggest. I can't see Tampa killing the deal if his name is replaced with a suitable alternative.

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:47.
Its interesting to me that Gorges is suddenly the brakes on the deal for many people. I like him a lot this season (and that goes down with my crow, as I was one of his critics last year!), but he definitely doesn't have the same value around the league that we attach to him. He is a steady, defensive defenceman with limited offensive ability. That's the cool thing about this site: some people don't like Plekanec's inclusion in the rumoured deal (I have no problem with that, as he is replaced by the player coming back). Some don't like the inclusion of Gorges. Some don't like Subban's inclusion...that one is a bit stranger to me. He is a prospect that may or may not turn out at the NHL level. I am inclined to think he has a lot of potential to be a bust, personally, but I do love his enthusiasm and skills, but he is just SO raw that I see him as high-risk, high-reward. The deal killer for me is Higgins. He brings too much to the team, in my opinion, to be packaged in with so many other players. On the flip side, there is a reason every team wants Higgins coming back in these rumoured deals...its a bit puzzling to me that so many Habs fans are okay with that.

twocents's picture
Submitted by twocents on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 03:07.
I'll make this quick, It's four things for me with Gorges. Firstly, we can't spare one of our top four defencemen, we need another in fact. Second, his relationship with Price primarily, but also his effect on others. He is a very positive guy. Third, I think he is an emerging leader and we can't lose too many of those. Lastly, he's cheap and signed for three years.

The Teacher's picture
Submitted by The Teacher on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:42.
Especially since Weber would be a replacement for Boyle kind of. We need the NHL bodies on defence, so it is a sticking point for me big time. I might overrate him, he is a bit undersized, but makes up for it with heart and solid positioning. Can never have enough of those guys from Beautiful British Columbia.

twocents's picture
Submitted by twocents on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:56.
Chris, I am not really arguing against your point about chemistry. It matters, of course, it's huge, but it's not static either. Some guys can come in and work out great. The GM has to do his homework and know his team's character, it's needs, what loses are digestible and have good knowledge of who he is bringing in. Does the fact that there are not many examples(and I didn't dig I just did those of the top of my head) really mean it can't work? Or is this paucity a function of there only being one Cup winner a year and that super stars do not often change teams in mid year. I hate to bring this up Chris.... but... PATRICK ROY!!!!* edit: *I was writing this while you were editing him in.:-)

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 01:25.
The lack of examples certainly does not mean that it won't work, just that there are no guarantees in this business. To win the Stanley Cup, I truly believe you need a healthy mix of the following: team chemistry, leadership, unbelievable amounts of luck (by the way, I want to yet again thank Steve Smith and Marty McSorely!) and consistently being a Stanley Cup contender. Some years you are going to flame out in the first round: injuries hit, you run into a goalie that plays beyond his capability, a flu bug ravages your team, your opposition goes insanely hot some how...there are so many factors out of your team's control. But by being in the mix, year after year after year, those statistical anomalies are going to even out and the cream will usually rise to the top.

twocents's picture
Submitted by twocents on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:27.
Chris, I agree with your post. There are no guarantees of success in any endeavor, you simply have to give yourself the best chance possible to succeed and, as you point out, there are numerous variables, many of which cannot be controlled. I am not sure I even want this trade to happen, of course a known price tag would help solidify my opinion, but I don't think that if it did, for the right price, it necessarily excludes the Canadiens from being in the type of position you describe. To me the biggest negative is the length of his contract and the fact that it has a no trade clause. I am not convinced that it would necessarily be a bad chemistry move, I believe it would actually add to our leadership dimension, the luck factor is what it is, and I believe that a healthy team model can be maintained with a player making 7.7 million. Detroit has four players making 6 million and above, two of which make 7.5. We don't have one, and sure that allows a different kind of organizational strength. But, the Wings have plenty of that too. In the long run you simply make the cornerstones of this team Price, A. Kost., Markov, Komisarek and, if this happens, Vincent Then you make sure you keep producing good young players and pick up timely signings. That's what Detroit does, they don't have their money evenly spread out. Anyway, I am just making the case that it is a viable direction that could work and doesn't have to sink the long term fortunes of the franchise. But, an 8 year commitment(since the last three contract years are peanuts) is a long commitment in hockey time. 8 years ago Jagr was the best player in the NHL and he was just turning 29 too.

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:35.
Nice points. My big negative here is the contract as well. It is too long and for too much. Should something happen, and historically the odds are pretty good that injuries will begin to take a toll on a power forward like Lecavalier, that contract becomes huge...its a cap killer. This is the big difference between today's NHL and the past...if there is no cap, we're not even having this discussion: Lecavalier would have already been here if he was available. It also makes many of the past deals somewhat harder to compare to today, because they did not have the salary cap constraint to worry about. The other worry is that I don't think we can rely in quite the same way as Detroit on free agency...Gainey has not landed many big free agents in recent years, and it has not been for a lack of effort. Nor is it because Montreal was not a contender before this season...guys like signing in the U.S. because the lifestyle might be more appealing and the money after taxes is better. Montreal is at a competitive disadvantage when it comes to the free agent market.

The Teacher's picture
Submitted by The Teacher on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:36.
What the heck! How FAST do you type?

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:54.
60-80 words per minute. Two years of typing class in high school...hated my dad for forcing me to do it, but its come in handy for boring people who have never met me! ;P

The Teacher's picture
Submitted by The Teacher on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 02:01.
Thanks for the interesting read guys.

Submitted by Yeats on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:07.
Guy Lefleur was, is and will always be right. The measure of success is the Stanley Cup. That is our yardstick, nothing more, nothing less!

Submitted by retro habs fan on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 23:41.
I think the same thing will happen with Vinny, that happened with Hossa. We thought it was a done deal last year at trade deadline, then Pitt scooped him up. So now everyone is assuming the habs are the team who will get him, forgetting thast other teams will make a pitch and could have a better offer. I say, we'lll be the bridesmaid, as usual. We never get the star player, so why should it be any different now? let's focus on picking up a Dman at trade deadline or before, and I'm hearing maybe Schneider is the player we're looking at. At since the Islanders are trading away players, maybe someone like Comrie, a center, could be had much cheaper than Vinny.

j2c's picture
Submitted by j2c on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 23:44.
I would agree with you, but I think this year is different...Bob will not let Vinny get away he knows how much it means to the team and the city. Bob will I think top any offer. I have a funny feeling that we might just land him, I mean when is it our turn. Boston is just being greedy they already have a good team, and giving away core players like Lucic (who is a good young player) will not bring them close then they are right now to the cup.

J. Ambrose's picture
Submitted by J. Ambrose on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:25.
And then we're sure to be one of the leading candidates to win the Stanley Cup, and the Bell Centre will be full, and Mtler's will be crazy about their team. Oh wait..., that's all true already. Why would we do this again? Oh yeah, shiny thing dangling in front of us. Ooooo. To you from falling hands, we throw the torch.

Submitted by YesterdaysPapers (not verified) on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 23:34.
OMG I CAN'T TAKE THIS ME SLOBBERIN FANATIC HABS FAN!!

Xtrahabsfan's picture
Submitted by Xtrahabsfan on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 23:33.
I got to tell you folks,I've been around for 50 years and when I gets a premonition and it's followed by hair stands on the back of my neck it means SOMETHING BIGS GONNA HAPPEN !THE VINNY IS COMING TO HABLAND TO WEAR THE BIG C.H...........................OH HELL YA........

Robert L's picture
Submitted by Robert L on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 23:46.
Irregardless of the contracts he's signed, I've always that too. I've had 3 out of 4 such "premonitions" come true, none have worked out yet. The four players were Savard, Turgeon, Linden and T. Fleury.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/


j2c's picture
Submitted by j2c on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 23:56.
How do you feel about Vinny coming over?

Robert L's picture
Submitted by Robert L on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:35.
A no brainer! Bring him on. If the Lightning want the rumoured package of replaceable parts that have contribted 15 goals to the Habs this season, I wouldn't think twice. I posted this the other day. Check the stats on the top three scoring centers over the last three seasons. http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2009/1/13/719786/story-title

Bugs's picture
Submitted by Bugs on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 23:33.
Krajzek, Wheeler, Lucic + 2 picks is what Boston is offering. Apparently. (gulp) Peace out ______________________________________________________ Lord Bugs Potter, esq. Earl of Fluppitburg, Baron of Fleenshire County and Knight of the Flannel Republic.

Robert L's picture
Submitted by Robert L on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:39.
A pipe dream that is, and they are not clearing any cap space!

Submitted by YesterdaysPapers (not verified) on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:53.
and that would be 15 million committed to Chara and Lecavalier with Chara due to become unrestricted in a couple of years.

j2c's picture
Submitted by j2c on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 23:58.
And what does this mean that apparently Boston is now ahead of us in getting Vinny?

Bugs's picture
Submitted by Bugs on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:01.
No. Even if it's true (Lucic??? Boston? Lucic? No.), I doubt Bob will allow himself to be topped this time. So it doesn't mean nuthin. Peace Out ______________________________________________________ Lord Bugs Potter, esq. Earl of Fluppitburg, Baron of Fleenshire County and Knight of the Flannel Republic.

twocents's picture
Submitted by twocents on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 23:56.
Bugs, Can you get me up to speed here? What's this beantown talk all about? Can ya give me the scoop? I've been away all day and now all this talk that I can't find any reference to. Man! sort me out Bugs. Will ya???

Bugs's picture
Submitted by Bugs on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:07.
Those were the names Jean Pagé read off a copy in front of him on 110%. Doesn't mean nuthin. Just gives us something to sink out teeth into and say stuff like "What? Lucic? No way!" or "Pff, friggin' Beanerville tryin' to up the ante." or "Boston is such and such and this and that." I got no more examples but you know, Stuff like that. Question is, Lucic or not, why can't I control this giddy feeling? Peace Out ______________________________________________________ Lord Bugs Potter, esq. Earl of Fluppitburg, Baron of Fleenshire County and Knight of the Flannel Republic.

Chris's picture
Submitted by Chris on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:20.
If Boston was dumb enough to trade THAT package (which I know they aren't while hoping they are) to Tampa Bay for Lecavalier, I would also be incredibly giddy. I can hear the Boston GM now... "Let's see...leading the league in offence. Check. Leading the league in defence. Check. You know, something is missing... Hey, I know! I'm gonna trade away key contributors and our future for something we don't need! My fan base will see how serious I am about building a contender out of this contender that I will become executive of the year!" Even though I know that no such rumour exists, I will be praying throughout the night for that deal to get done. :)

Bugs's picture
Submitted by Bugs on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:41.
I hear ya, C-Train. They'd be nuts. So our offer will DEFINITELY top theirs. Now, Chik-Cago, same thing. They'd be stupid to offer WHOEVER. So our offer will DEFINITELY top theirs. Now Loze Anglees, da city of angels...(gulp). It's the EXACT same place as Tampa, except instead of Snowbirds, it's Lindsay Lohan. Oh, and they got 11 million freed up...shootin' da breeze with Lindsay Lohan. Plus, he wouldn't have to deal with Montreal but once a year. L.A.'s offer COULD top ours...if V4 was that type of character. So now, it comes down to his and his agent's "having a say" in the negotiations. And if intimates towards Mtl, it MIGHT not cost Mr.Gainey so much. Oh, boy, NOW, I'm dreamin'...oh...there's lindsay lohan... Peace Out ______________________________________________________ Lord Bugs Potter, esq. Earl of Fluppitburg, Baron of Fleenshire County and Knight of the Flannel Republic.

twocents's picture
Submitted by twocents on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:32.
Yeah, that package is great. If I were Tampa that would be the one to rebuild on.

twocents's picture
Submitted by twocents on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:13.
Oh 110%. I see, Gordo... never mind.

j2c's picture
Submitted by j2c on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:12.
Your feeling giddy I'm feeling that this is going downhill like last year with Hossa, just the team that will get Vinny is Boston. I mean look at the preposed package.

Bugs's picture
Submitted by Bugs on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 00:49.
Pah. That was just Marian Hossa. I wasn't giddy. I was MILDLY interested. Maintenant, on parle de Vincent Lecavalier. The ÃŽle-Bizard Blitz, the Scourge of the South-East, the Forza Four, the Tampa Bay Ice Devil, the Ultimate Engine of Doom (I made that last one up). Now, I'm bloody FREAKIN' out. "Hossa," he says... Pff. That and a dollar, you get a cup'o'coffee. ... If you have a really, really big cup of course. Peace Out ______________________________________________________ Lord Bugs Potter, esq. Earl of Fluppitburg, Baron of Fleenshire County and Knight of the Flannel Republic.

twocents's picture
Submitted by twocents on Thu, 01/15/2009 - 01:17.
freakin' ginormous cup!

j2c's picture
Submitted by j2c on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 23:41.
That's simply not fair...I still think he would rather come here, and Bob would not let another slip away from him like the rest of them. Boston is just plain greedy, they have a good team why would they break it up. Aren't they like 32-7?

Submitted by YesterdaysPapers (not verified) on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 23:36.
they are trying to up the price, make us over pay. Does he even want to go there? does it even matter since his NTC hasn't kicked in yet? will the Boston fans survive the departure of the beloved future Cam Neely??

Bugs's picture
Submitted by Bugs on Wed, 01/14/2009 - 23:41.
Agree. L.A. and Chicago in at the trough too. Don't know what they're offerin'. Vinny must come to the conclusion that Mtl is the place for him. I think we got a DANG good shot of landing him if he DOES have anything to say about it. Then it might not cost Bob as much. Peace Out ______________________________________________________ Lord Bugs Potter, esq. Earl of Fluppitburg, Baron of Fleenshire County and Knight of the Flannel Republic.

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