"I would have loved not to be with you today" – Gainey
posted by Kevin Mio at 16h04 EST on Mar 9
Renaud Lavoie on RDS reports Gainey will say the team has been underachieving for two months and little time is left to right the ship.
Lavoie says players quit on Carbonneau and that his treatment of Steve Bégin did not play well with several players.
Jacques Demers says Gainey calling the hiring of Carbonneau his best decision was a major mistake. But Demers is surprised by the firing and thinks maybe the call came from above Gainey – and that would be the owner, because the general manager doesn't answer to team president Pierre Boivin.
"The players have said to Bob Gainey and to the fans we can't play for this man," Demers said. It is always, he added, the way. The players decide who will coach them.
Demers cited indiscipline: eight penalties in Atlanta, 10 in Dallas. A narrow, tense win over a Stars team playing its third game in four nights and coming off a west-coast trip.
• Pierre Lebrun weighs in
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Submitted by Shoowtime on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 13:46.
It has nothing to do with French or English.
They need to hire the best possible Coach
If we win georges pockets are still going to be full.
If we lose then the language becomes an issue again.
We all know that QC is a Fench province but politics should have nothing to do with a hockey Decision.
Just win BABY and nobody will give a flying F*** if it's an Anglophone or a Francophone.
Gillete will make his cash no matter what.
GO HABS GO
Submitted by habssince1909 on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 18:19.
Absolutely agree with you 110% - all will be forgotten/forgiven if Gainey gets the boys to win, win, win....no one will care/remember the Carbo days......it is ALL about success here, whether it is franco/anglo or whatever. Just win, that is all that counts......BUT if that is not the case, then Gainey's head will be on a platter, and he will be run out of town and language once again becomes an issue.....
GO HABS GO
Submitted by lefreak on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 10:27.
guys i want to start off by saying that i am not a francophone. (yesterday i got called a jean guy pepper for saying what i am about to.)
Who is the only tv provider that braodcasts all of the habs games?
RDS (french)
With all of the revenue this brings the team, a coach has to be able to communicate with the media that allows it to make its bread and butter.
Anglophones are a minority in this province last time i checked (it is not even that close). It bothers me too sometimes that language is something that hampers the teams choices, but a business is a business and the franco fans are the reason this is one of the most profitable teams in the national hockey league. I would much rather have 1 coach that can communicate with the media, than a bunch of journeymen franco players that would most likely have trouble finding jobs elsewhere in the league. FFS even Bob Berry spoke a little french. This is not columbus, a coach has to do more than just that here (see 2 press conferences a day).
Bob Gainey even took it upon himself to improve his french, because he knew how important it was to run this successful franchise. The habs are ranked 4th overall in all north american sports this year when it comes to fiscal performance (the maple laffs are 67th), adding 18% to the franchise value. That is huge, and like the media or not, they have had a big hand in that as well. No other team gets coverage like this, sometimes it is a bad thing, but in reality it is what keeps uncle george's pockets full. He needs his pockets full, he is not doing so well in his other businesses.
Submitted by badbalance on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 15:43.
The way i see it, Get the best we can get. Or just go for Patrick Roy. If you wanna get a specific french speaking coach, get ready to not win the cup for another 100 years.. enough said.
Submitted by forskis on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 10:42.
I would agree...but there is one issue here...if the coach spoke only English then the "French media" would translate things as they see fit and people would fall for it...if the coach can speak French then the opportunity to twist the facts is reduced...after all the Montreal media of both languages are vultures always ready to pounce and pick on a carcass.
Submitted by lefreak on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 10:45.
That too. I would love to be able to bring in people regardless of language, but the way the business model in this city is set up, it would be very difficult.
Hab "professor" (kovalev is in his prime le lol), does not understand that a business model in one place being successful does not translate into it being successful somewhere else. No one seems to remember the financial troubles the team had in the 90's. No one wanted to buy them and it was for more reasons than just the exchange rate;)
Submitted by HAB-PROFESSOR on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 10:48.
maybe because they couldn't win a game? remember that was our worst period of Hab Hockey in History. (after 93)
Submitted by lefreak on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 10:52.
last time i checked we are a loss away from being in 9th place.
your point is moot.(as usual)
The BC was sold out every game before they were "winners".
stick to bad analysis of players, business is obviously not your forte.
what happened to your sig;)
lol
Submitted by HAB-PROFESSOR on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 10:33.
Capello didn't speak english...but ENGLAND hired him to lead their world cup hopes.
why? because he was the best, and he was outside the politics of the country and the organization... maybe thats what we need at this point?
Can the french media speak english?..i think most do...and its WINNING that keeps the money rolling.
and that has ZERO to do with speaking French.
Submitted by lefreak on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 10:41.
way to miss the boat as usual.
you are comparing soccer to hockey, the british to the quebecois.
let's hire joe torre as coach and get south korean enforcers because they know taikwondo.
when they won the cup in 86 and in 89, the forum was not sold out every game.
the molson centre, remember that? was not a success until way later.
what runs this team is money, because without it you can't win.
Do you know how much money is made through advertisement? If GeG (Gilette Entertainment Group) did not exist, George would not like to own this team so much;)
BTW Players don't get paid for international soccer;) Yes, it makes a big difference.
Submitted by forskis on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 11:03.
Hate to break it to you Lefreak but the soccer comparison works...when Capello was hired along with his 4 Italian assistants, the British Press freaked out and wanted to know why an English team had to be coached by a foreigner and what happened to all the good local English coaches...in fact, it was such a big deal that Capello added an English coach as a token AND he had a press conference where he promised to practice and improve his English...when it comes to national team soccer, the English are just as nuts as Quebecers are for the Habs...
Submitted by lefreak on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 11:48.
how much do the players (soccer) get paid when they play for their country . ;)
This makes a huge difference. It does not cost England 57 million dollars in salary to field a team.
This discussion is based on revenue.
Submitted by forskis on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 11:50.
Fair enough.
Submitted by lefreak on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 11:54.
i agree with almost everything you said, i am not trying to argue we just were not talking about the same thing:)
Submitted by forskis on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 12:14.
LOL...I was not arguing either, your previous point was clear that we were not talking about the same thing...I was trying to end the convo at that point.
Submitted by lefreak on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 12:26.
COP OUT!
RAGE! RAGE! RAGE! RAGE!
:P
Submitted by HAB-PROFESSOR on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 10:46.
well, here is a couple facts,
the Habs are a religion to Montrealers, they will not abandon watching the Habs if a non-French coach is behind the bench and they are winning.
and I'd bet there are more English speaking Montreal Fans in Canada then French... more English speaking fans of the Habs outside the province of Quebec....include the U.S. as well.
so, just maybe if they catered more to the ANGLO side, the organization would be #1 in money revenues... ever thought of that?
Submitted by lefreak on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 11:52.
How much do these fans outside of the immediate area bring in in terms of $$$$ to the team. If you are going to say jerseys, that is wrong, because merchandising is divided equally among all 30 teams regardless of who sells more. Habs fans elsewhere go to games, but George does not see a cent from that ticket you bought in Buffalo.
I am not calling fans from elsewhere "lesser", once again this is just in terms of fiscal discussion.
This is a business before anything else, if you want to argue that, then i just will not bother anymore because you keep comparing apples and ninja turtles.
as Kriss Kross would say:
"You missed the bus
You missed the bus
You missed
You missed the bus"
while i'm not saying your "facts" are completely wrong in terms of fan support (i don't think they are 100% right either. People are losing their jobs left and right in this economy and tickets are expensive), i just wanted to let you know that a FACT needs concrete proof, not just you believing that your opinion is fact.
fact
   /fækt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fakt] Show IPA
–noun
1. something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2. something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4. something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
5. Law. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence. Compare question of fact, question of law.
lets see some concrete evidence to these "facts".
less talk more actual backing up with something other than personal opinion.
Submitted by HAB-PROFESSOR on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 13:49.
TV revenue and Ticket Sales, would that be the highest sources of income for Mr Gillet?
I haven't been able to purchase a Habs ticket in years.
anyway, I think your point is the local economy and the Canadiens BUSINESS will suffer if the coach is not French speaking, correct?
I see the benefits, don't get me wrong, but I also see a winning team as the most important element to financial prosperity, that's all.
Submitted by Shoowtime on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 09:52.
Lets all be honest Carbo was a good coach but you could see that He had lost the team back in February if not before.
The boys were not playing for him and it showed.
I feel bad for Mr Carboneau this was his learning experience and he will go on and do what the other ex habs coaches have done over the years.
Good luck to him
Now the real issue.
Im hearing that the next coach must be bilinguale or a Francophone.
I will not get in the political side of things but I beleive the best coach for this team would have been Tortorella but because the move was too late we lost out.
But Please lets not make a stupid decision again lets get the best possible Coach.
If the french media don't like it they should start getting some english classes.
GO HABS GO
Submitted by Chapman on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 10:28.
Whether he lost them in February or not, something has been wrong with this team all year. With the exception of a handful of games, this team has not played the way many thought they were capable of playing. It has been a whole season of inconsistency, for whatever reason, and now we will find out if Carbo was the problem, or atleast part of it. Regardless, its a sad day when a guy like Carbo looses his job. Although it may have needed to be done, its hard not to look back on the eithties, and remember the effort he brought forth on a nightly basis. We could use a Gainey-Carbo-Nilan threesome on this team. It would help to fix some of the issues (ie) lack of effort, and lack of sticking up for a team-mate.
Submitted by stanley25 on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 10:17.
Language won't be an issue. Gainey will hire Mario Tremblay as a coach and Patrick Roy and Dale Hunter as assistant. The fun we'll have!
And now, a 25th banner will hang on the rafters of the Bell Center in Montreal. The Canadiens win the Stanley cup!
Submitted by stanley25 on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 10:14.
Nice picture!
Submitted by forskis on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 10:08.
How about Peter Laviolette? Did wonders in Carolina, maybe he can do that magic here too...if so, can't wait for them to ask about his French roots and his answer, "What French roots?"
Submitted by smiler2729 on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 10:06.
Screw appeasing the French media, Toe Blake was anglais, Al McNeil, Scotty Bowman, tous anglais. Hire the right guy for the right reasons.
Submitted by krob1000 on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 09:26.
I have been trying to let this sink in.....I still don't know where I stand on it (mainly due to timing but better late than never...I guess). On one hand, Carbo seemed to want to coach the Minesota Wild although his teams assets and abilities were offensively oriented, his line juggling was mindboggling, his admiration for the muckers and grinders bordered on obsessive, he seemed to lack the passion to motivate (this year) and he seemed himself a man of shaken confidence and questioning himself (never good for a coach...at least to show).
On the other hand.....Guy Carbonneau is the man who got Alex Kovalev to be one of the best penalty killers on the team! He had Kovy killing 5 on 3's...how he did that will someday be considered a minor miracle. He aided in the development of several guys like the Kosty's , Pleks, Higgins,etc last year and definitely taught them defensive awareness and sacrifice....at some point though he went overboard but his positive influences on them will remain with them forever and they will all be better two way players because of it. He had this team playing a run and gun game last year but still playing responsible defensively...I still believe that team from last year (which is remarkably similar to this years)deserved a better fate. I think he was mostly to blame though for his decision of refocussing us on the grinding front and moving away from our team scoring depth and speed. Last year he brought the best out in nearly everyone until the playoffs when he seemed to default into what he knew....this was definitely a concern and I still believe it frustrated the guys last year....but there is no denying IMO that last year we wouldn't have been the team we were without him.....kind of ironic.
In Gainey we get a man whom the players will respect as they did Guy before....surely they understand the difficulty of Bob's decision and hopefully those with hearts will understand that they are the ones equally as responsible for the situation. The new direction (although temporary) in combination with the emotionally charged events of the Dallas game will likely provide us with enough of a kickstart to make a significant charge down the stretch IMO. I hope Gainey's bird's eye and distanced view has allowed him to see what we have seen all year with respect to the lines and chemistry apparent and lacking between some previously favoured combinations. That Dallas game we finally seemed to get some of that right and I hope it continues. I also hope Gainey makes a call to Hamilton and brings Sergei up here at some point as another offensive weapon to add to the attack. I am hoping Gainey is going to play to the strengths of the team he built. As integral as effort is I also hope that he realizes the role of fouth liners is to be fourth liners and energizers..no more and no less unless inury forces his hand.
I am also hoping that Don Lever's presence will help to inspire the play of those who have developed with him. I really like that part of this move despite the criticisms of some on here. The biggest benefit to that IMO is that many of the guys can only view Lever as instrumental to their careers.....he has to have ok'd them for them to have made the jump...in a sense he has given these guys their big break.....they all know that his opinion played an unforgettable role in their careers (the players who passes through Hamilton obviously). I can't see how that realtionship can possibly be a bad thing...even the guys who he was likely ordered to ride with respect to certain habits or deficiencies in their game can only respect him as he obviously would have had to give them a vote of confidence for them to get the call back to teh big club. I think that is a very wise move and this nonsense about him being a "rookie coach" ....is quite comical seeing as though he has already coached over half the team (and to a championship I might add).
Only time will tell how this all plays out and while I can't be happy about the decision due to my regard for Carbo's success ( I just wish we cuold turn back the clock to our series agaisnt Boston becasue up to that point Carbo was the best coach in the league IMO). It is a bittersweet move and the right move for the team in the short term but I truly believe Carbo has it in him to be a great coach...he already has been one....he just needs to review his mistakes and the the things that made him successful. This move leaves me feeling sick to my stomach for the people involved but it also leaves me optimistic for the short term. Bittersweet has never been a more meaningful word to me before this whole ordeal.
Submitted by HAB-PROFESSOR on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 10:10.
Good Summary Krobber...whats ironic is this happens precisely at the point where CARB finally got it all right!, the Game against Dallas was pure coaching genius, the lines were correct, the move with PRICEY in the nets, sending STEWY on to take out OTT, then KOVY working his magic patented sideboards show and pulling off a great comeback win.
So obviously Gainey had made up his mind along time ago... if you look at the details, Carb had his wife with him in Dallas, visiting his daughter etc. so Gainey held off and let that play out.
then he says they had a heated meeting (argument?) the next day back in Montreal and that was the trigger?
anyway, its done now.... I just pray that Gainey doesn't try to put his stamp on things and put Kostop on the 1st etc.....
Submitted by DMAN on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 09:12.
What you didn't notice - In the above picture, AK46 is holding the fire carbo sign. I guess it WAS worse than we thought!
-------------------
Individual records are nice to get, but before the season starts, you want to play to win the Stanley Cup! ~ Guy Lafleur
Submitted by saku11saku11 (not verified) on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 09:47.
HA HA - i missed that!!
Submitted by lavie on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 09:36.
If you are not joking, watch again.
Submitted by M.Neil on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:36.
I guess Carbo had to go, feel sorry for the guy, will he end up as another analyst for TSN? and then get hired as coach by another team, or will he just fade away?
Submitted by stanley25 on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:47.
His english is to weak to be on TSN. His french is very average as well! But that doesn't matter, on RDS and CKAC, you don't have to speak a proper french to get airtime. ONLY IN QUEBEC! It's a shame!
And now, a 25th banner will hang on the rafters of the Bell Center in Montreal. The Canadiens win the Stanley cup!
Submitted by Fairfax on Wed, 03/11/2009 - 13:30.
His English is too weak to be on TSN? Really? Do you forget how long he was in Dallas? Aren't his kids still living there? I think he's likely to move back there now, in fact. He's practically an American, I think he's at least as eloquent in English as he is in French.
Yvon Pedneault, whose English is MUCH worse than Carbonneau's, was hired by CBC to do colour commentary on Habs games this year. Mind you, that really hasn't worked out very well. And I wouldn't hire Carbonneau for a media job, personally, in English OR French. But that has nothing to do with language, and more to do with personality (or lack thereof).
His English is fine - in fact, I'd argue his English is better than P.J. Stock's! ;-) But P.J. has a spark, a personality, and that's actually more important than how well you speak.
Submitted by M.Neil on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:58.
Another communication problem again, poor Guy.
Submitted by Habitant in Surrey on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:29.
...just found out now at 6:20 AM PST out here on the Wrong Coast that Carbonneau was fired ...something I was previously surprised had not happened until now ...but still finally hearing it has happened is a violent kick in my groin
...Carbonneau was as important to Our last Stanley Cups as was Roy in my opinion ...You talk today about Koivu's heart ...Carbonneau had as large or larger
...he played the game DEFENSIVELY with passion ...the CH is embridered in his heart ...I do not enjoy this day one bit
Habitant means PASSIONATE HOCKEY
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=423049
Submitted by wd40 on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:49.
Carbo is one of the good ones -- he played every game like it was the most important game of the season, huge heart, etc, but that does not (sadly) necessarily translate to being a great leader, communicator, and/or coach.
Submitted by stanley25 on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:28.
Trevia for Koivu bashers:
Name the great captain that went trough these coaches during his career
1- Bob Berry, Pierre Creamer, Gene Ubriaco, Eddie Johnston, Craig Patrick, Bob Johnson, Scotty Bowman, Kevin Constantine, Herb Brooks, Ivan Hlinka, Rick Kehoe, Ed Olczyk and Michel Therrien
2- Nick Polano, Harry Neale, Brad Park, Jacques Demers, Bryan Murray, Scotty Bowman, Dave Lewis, Barry Smith, Scotty Bowman, Dave Lewis et Mike Babcock
I rest my case! Now shut up already!
And now, a 25th banner will hang on the rafters of the Bell Center in Montreal. The Canadiens win the Stanley cup!
Submitted by Nahlsy on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:36.
You're trying to compare Saku Koivu to Mario Lemieux? Why not compare Patrick Lalime to Patrick Roy because they have the same first name while you're at it?
Submitted by stanley25 on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:42.
I'm just pointing the fact that Lemieux and Yzerman went trough a whole lot of coaches during their captaincy but no one question their leadership.
Also, Ray Bourque never won the up as a captain of the Bruins. Was that because he was a bad captain?
And now, a 25th banner will hang on the rafters of the Bell Center in Montreal. The Canadiens win the Stanley cup!
Submitted by Nahlsy on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:58.
I didn't read back to see who bashed or how they bashed, I'll merely add my opinion on Koivu's tenure. Koivu was the best we had available to us at a time that the team was in the hands of some very incompetent management. They threw away anything worth a darn and left the team in a shambles.
Koivu stepped it up in the lean years and was the best of a rather useless bunch for the most part and he gave his life and his blood sweat and tears for the Habs, he'll be forever thanked for it.
Having said that, he always has been and always will be a mediocre player in this league, he's not an Yzerman, Lemieux, Gretzky, Messier, Stevens, Francis etc, he's a Koivu. A team is represented by it's captain, and when the team was a hard working group of mediocre players banding together to fight to higher finishes than their talent deserved, Koivu represented that battling the odds spirit well. However, when they're now ready to move on to being one of the clubs to beat and want to become an elite club, a team that challenges for the cup, they need a better player in that captain's role. They need a guy that can contend for a scoring title, or who can be the best defenceman on the ice and punish people, or be the best defensive forward on the ice as the case may be. The captain is the face of the team, and while no captain can win on his own, a captain has to be able to take over on the ice and lead by example, needs to be able to take the team on his back and carry them when they need it, as well as in the locker room.
The unfortunate part is that I can't see taking the C away from Koivu and keeping him here at the same time so it comes down to a tough call, would we rather settle for mediocrity and players now lowering their games to match their captain (now that we have players that are better than himself) or would we rather make the tough call of changing the captain for a higher tiered guy that can take the club to the next level?
I'm in no way bashing Koivu to suggest that it may be time that we start the transition over to a new captain in the offseason.
Submitted by Sakuismyhero on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 09:19.
You are bashing Koivu to call him mediocre because he is not a Yzerman or Lemieux.
Truth is, I want to know, who on this team is elite? Where are all these elite players you refer to? The team is not mediocre, or wasn't supposed to be, due to the leadership that was shown last year. Now because they have fired their coach and have yet to be number 1 in the NHL its Koivu's mediocrity which is to blame?
I understand your points but I do not believe the Habs are an elite team. I love them and wish them to win many stanley cups but their amazingness is not catergorized by their insane talent but by their ability to be the underdog and to win it all. That's why they are so loved! They are not the Habs of the 60s and 70s! They are different and Koivu is a part of that and that's why I still love the team today.
Submitted by Nahlsy on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 10:58.
That's not bashing him, it's calling it as he is. He's not going to be among the scoring leaders, he's a 30-60 point guy at best and at worst. He's not an NHL superstar, he's a middle of the road guy. Anyone in the NHL playing front line minutes would likely be expected to put up similar point totals (Dominic Moore, Darcy Tucker for example).
I haven't changed my opinion on Koivu, it has nothing to do with Carbonneau being hired or fired, it's just simple fact, Beliveau, Rocket, Koivu. One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong.
The team generally reflects it's captain, when the team was lacking superstar talent and needed to use heart and determination to fight through adversity to overcome it's handicaps, that was a perfect fit for Koivu. Now that the team had a nucleus and foundation built to try to go to the next level, the team needs a captain that matches that. It's not hate for Koivu, it's appreciation for a great person and loving him for giving his life to the Habs when we needed him and accepting that he's just not a superstar so expecting him to be one isn't fair.
If they want to move to the next tier, a big part of that starts with the captain taking them there, the way Yzerman took the Red Wings or Richard or Beliveau took the Habs there.
Submitted by Norm0770 on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:46.
Yzerman also played 13 years for the Red Wings before they won a championship and people in Detroit and Hockey Canada weren't questioning his leadership.
Actually their careers are quite similar in that they both played for many seasons on poor teams until fairly late in their careers.
Submitted by TommyB on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:45.
How many coaches did Henri Richard serve? How many coaches did Jean Beliveau serve? Your point is well taken.
Submitted by habfan53 on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 09:24.
Both played under only 4 coaches
Beliveau : Irvin, Blake Ruel and McNeil
Richard: Blake, Ruel, McNeil and Bowman
Submitted by TommyB on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 11:01.
Four coaches is a lot when you consider the times. Players didn't get their coaches fired back in those days.
Submitted by twocents on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:26.
I am reposting this from last night, since it got buried in a pile of spew and crap. Apologies to those who already read it. I was feeling uncomfortable with the company my comments were keeping down there, seems to be an increasing concern around here.
It's a shame things didn't work out for a great Hab. Thanks Carbo for applying yourself and bringing your pride, intelligence and passion to the team. In some ways his difficulties lay in the fact that his players were not half the men he was in his playing days. Having said that, this move is justified and responsible on Gainey's part. And as I said earlier today in Boone's "About This Evening' thread, Gainey would not and did not abdicate his ultimate responsibility for the team's performance. I feel quite certain this was a very difficult decision for him to take and it squarely puts him into the spotlight. But, it proves without a doubt that where Bob Gainey is concerned, his team is his first priority and not his friendships.
I hope the ceaseless Carbo/Gainey bashers out there, who said Gainey would never fire his friend, show some humility with their future posts, but I'm not counting on it. From a partial perusal of what's been posted tonight, it seems that some have already added firing Carbonneau to their list of Gainey gaffs, mere hours after campaigning for the move. This joint gets classier and classier with every passing day.
Submitted by stanley25 on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:37.
Great post, Thanks!
And now, a 25th banner will hang on the rafters of the Bell Center in Montreal. The Canadiens win the Stanley cup!
Submitted by TommyB on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:39.
There are more cheap-shot artists on this site than the entire 70's Broad Street Bullies gang. You had to know that once the day actually came when Carbo was fired, they would have to turn their sights onto someone else.
Submitted by twocents on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:44.
It's sad what seems to turn some people's crank.
Submitted by DOUBLE_D (not verified) on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:20.
This don't look good for Halak!
Price is Gainey's "Chosen One", "The Franchise", "His Boy".
You bet your Sweet Ass, that Gainey will ride Price like a "Rented Mule" for the rest of the season.
Submitted by saku11saku11 (not verified) on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:11.
So sorry for all of those who put this great HIO site together. . . .
BUT. . .
I
MUST
TAKE
UP
SPACE
to get ride of the bashing below of one of the greatest players to wear the HABS uniform. No not THE greastest but certainly the best in the past decade.
Submitted by Sakuismyhero on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:41.
Thank you...
When people blame Saku for not winning the cup since 1993, it makes my blood boil. Montreal is lucky to have a player stick with the team through thick and thin, through horrible coaching, managing and teammates...Through media hatred and continuous fan bashing. We are lucky to have a player who goes out for us EVERY NIGHT and who does not get benched to clear his head, and who does not give up when he doesn't "feel" into the game. He is a captain in every regard it would be disgusting of the fans and the organization to strip him of the "C"
He is the reason I love the Habs quite frankly because he is the player I respect most not only because of the way he plays but because of his grace and dignity and the way he deals with all the obstacles he has faced here--no one has forced him to stay but he has. He is a commendable person and I wish for him to be Captain until he retires which I hope is in no way soon.
Submitted by saku11saku11 (not verified) on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:08.
I would have though most of the chatter would be about the coaching decidion yesterday.
Submitted by TommyB on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:12.
Sir, look where it's coming from.
Submitted by RetroMikey on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 07:34.
Something is not right about the firing of Carbonneau.
Bob was pressured by Boivin or Gillett, in my opinion.
Black Monday yesterday, we are moving backwards and not forward with the firing of Carbonneau.
"We will win the Cup only with Carey Price in the nets"
Submitted by Billyboy on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:49.
If we are moving backwards, I would suggest that it would be impossible to win the cup with Price or anyone else in the net.
Kudo's to Bob Gainey. Carbo was a great player but a lousy coach. Finally Bob came to his senses.
Submitted by RetroMikey on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 09:10.
Nobody complained when Carbonneau was appointed coach on this site several seasons back.
The jury is out to see if indeed are a playoff contender without Carbonneau as a coach.
I believe we are not as good as the GM's labelled us to finish first in the Eastern Conference before the season began.
We have more problems on the team even with Carbonneau's axing as coach.
"We will win the Cup only with Carey Price in the nets"
Submitted by TommyB on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:11.
Retro, I certainly hope you are wrong. It's easy to see where this could be the case, GM fires a long-time colleague and friend hired by him to coach his team. However, both of these guys know each other well enough and respect each other well enough, to know that this day would eventually come. Every coach is hired to be fired. Fact of coaching life. I think Bob had to do some serious soul-searching here, but in the end, came to the conclusion that this was what he had to do. No doubt there were enourmous pressures, from media, from fans, and maybe even from management above, but I believe it was Gainey's decision alone to make. I believe Gainey would resign before he would allow the business people in the organization to overrule the head of the hockey operation. I believe Bob has more integrity than that.
Submitted by twocents on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:35.
I agree Tommy. As so often is the case, people will stretch to great lengths when events do not unfold the way they believe they should. I don't see Gainey allowing himself to be forced by those above him either. Besides, in the end, if he did, he would still be responsible for acquiescing. No matter how it happened Gainey is responsible and he understands what that means better than anyone around here, and I respect him for it.
Submitted by saku11saku11 (not verified) on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:14.
Best post I have seen in a very long time.
Submitted by AlexKovalevAK27 on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:11.
Do you honestly think that with Carbo behind the bench the team was going to make the playoffs?? if your players don't believe in you you'll never win...
Kosto and Lapierre on the ice for 4 on 4.
Metropolit on for the 4 on 3
Your fourth line on in the final minutes of a crucial game
Taking shots at his players which is normal sometimes but look at the faith of Therrien.. he was ripping the players and goaltending as well as the work ethic and look where it got him...Fired
The mistakes go on and on for Carbo.. he stopped believing in his star players and put his faith in the grinders... we know those are the guys who always show up but there not the ones who are going to win you a game.
His inexperience did him in...
Submitted by Billyboy on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:51.
Right on!
Submitted by saku11saku11 (not verified) on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:11.
I agree. While I supported GC he made some strange decisions and I really believe there were some issues with the players.
The decision has been made - now let's support our team.
GO HABS GO
Submitted by coachdoug on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 06:58.
The dust has settled and the sun has risen...
I predict by Saturday night we get put some distance on other teams in the playoff race...
Les Boys will play hard with Bob behind the bench and the schedule is very favorable...
Wondering who Bob puts between the pipes...
Go Habs Go!
"Proud home of the now four...sacred cows...Breezer...you may be next"
Submitted by Clay4bc on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 06:50.
Koivu is beyond reproach. Anyone who questions his leadership and dedication to this team has a poor understanding of the issues at hand...
__________________
Just as no culture has a monopoly on beauty or value, no religion has a monopoly on truth - Voltaire
Submitted by Garbo on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 06:03.
WOO-HOO... about damn time.
Submitted by CHCanadien on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 05:29.
Saku Koivu is the heart and soul of the Canadiens!
Submitted by SlovakHab on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 03:44.
So fans are now blaming Koivu for no Cups since 1993?
That is just ridiculous, lads.
Has Iginla won any cup with Calgary? - ok, they should get rid of him and get a new captain.. etc
The only reason why we have sucked since 1994 was the management we had before Bob Gainey, and their ridiculous moves. That is the only reason, folks.
Submitted by longbow on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 00:13.
Koivu bashers down below obviously don't understand team sports or what leadership is all about.Please,rear your ugly heads so we may know which morons to ignore.Ask Bouchard,R.Richard,Beliveau,H.Richard,Savard,Cournoyer,Gainey,or Carbonneau why they won the cup.It's not one man.It's the whole team pulling together and sacrificing for each other toward a common goal.On a championship team all are captains and all are leaders.
Vox Populi,Vox Humbug! -- William Tecumseh Sherman
Submitted by Norm0770 on Mon, 03/09/2009 - 23:26.
I'm not sure where all of the Koivu haters are coming from.
For 13 seasons he has played in Montreal and left it all on the ice each night. Over his years with the Habs he has been asked to play different roles, checking, play maker, penalty killer and always answered the media questions after every game, with one notable exception, win or lose.
People here say he is not a leader, but his colleagues voted him Captain, and he hasn't done anything to dishonour himself or the franchise on or off the ice, and thus kept the C for 10 years. He is also captain of the Finnish national team, and Finland's athlete representative to the IOC, which is voted on by all athelets from his country.
With regard to the team's lack of championships during Koivu's time in Montreal, I think Jean Beliveau or Bob Gainey would be very hard pressed to have any Stanley Cup rings if he had played on the teams Koivu has.
He has endured unbelievable media scrutiny and laughable language accusations from politicans even, but decided to return to Montreal when he has had opportunity to leave as a UFA. It must be because he loves the city and its fans, but God only knows why.
Submitted by Billyboy on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:58.
Not sure where all the Koivu haters are coming from?
The Canadian Society of imbeciles.
Submitted by HardHabits on Mon, 03/09/2009 - 23:58.
When Koivu came back from his injury and the team started tanking and all fingers pointed to Kovalev you can be sure I had my 2 cents to put in about Koivu's ineffectiveness. No-one, including I ever questioned SK11's heart. I have called for a new direction and the Koivu as captain era should come to a close. I'd like to see a new captain next season!
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The new theory of relativity is E = AK27²
Submitted by G-Man on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 04:59.
It's time for Koivu and Kovalev to leave. Their effectiveness as leaders has been on display for the last few seasons. Enough, already.
__________________________________________________________________________________
Beliveau is the best that ever was.
Submitted by AlexKovalevAK27 on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:24.
Kovalev's Winning record as captain speaks for itself... That's all I have to say.
Not saying Koivu is a bad captain or that he has no heart. But if your going to rip Kovy I'm going to defend him... with the "C" on Kovy's shirt the team was winning...
Submitted by saku11saku11 (not verified) on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:05.
Exactly - we should try hard ot get rid of the two best playoff performers on the team.
Submitted by Hockey11 on Mon, 03/09/2009 - 23:49.
He is the hardest working forward on most nights.
Submitted by BKAK72 on Mon, 03/09/2009 - 23:32.
I agree that Koivu had the misfortune of playing on some of the worst Canadiens rosters. He also was crowned a starting center (along with Kovalev) by the media and that was just dead wrong too. The HABS have a roster full of quality second line players with the exception of Markov who is a #1 D-Man on any team. I find Koivu to be be perfect as #2 - he just isn't a #1.
Where's our #1 Center?
Submitted by ifitwasnt4kovalev on Mon, 03/09/2009 - 23:31.
well said....then koivu can stay....for much less then he is getting paid now...and definitely not as the Captain of the montreal Canadiens....if he agrees to that..im sure we can keep him as a second line or maybe even third line center.
Submitted by BKAK72 on Mon, 03/09/2009 - 23:10.
Maybe it's really this simple. When you are about to play game #66 and you are (still) trying out new lines the message sent by the coach is:
(a) The roster really isn't that good (blame Gainey), or
(b) The coach can no longer motivate this roster (blame Carbo)
(c) Both (a) and (b) above
My thought? I believe it is (c).
Too bad that the pre-requisite of being a Manager or Coach in Montreal includes the mandatory requirement of bilingualism. This will narrow down the talent dramatically. I just want a championship contender and can care less where you were born and/or language spoken.
Where's our #1 Center?
Submitted by blueline on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 00:11.
I think you've summed up the situation clearly and concisely on all counts.
The team lost a talented and contributing center-man going into a critical period of the regular season. As the aim is always to get into the playoffs, what did Gainey do to insure success? He picked up a lower ranked discard from another team. What message does that give to the team, the owner or the fans? How does that improve the team's chances of reaching the playoffs, never mind going any distance in them? How much harder does that make the job of the person coaching?
I can see occasions where exhibiting patience can be a virtue, but doing nothing to even maintain the team's existing skill level while potential opponents are improving their lineups, and all the while saying that there's no need for alarm is self-delusion of the first order.
You're right about the background of the coach or manager being unimportant. What is important is competence. Winning stems from ability and not what languages you speak or don't speak. Going back 15 years we've all seen first-hand what sacrificing competence for "the new linguistic correctness" has done for the Habs. I don't have to list the disastrous coaching and management combinations, all long-suffering fans know them only too well. The Habs have (or rather had) a proud tradition of success. Let's not see mediocrity become the new norm.
Submitted by smiler2729 on Mon, 03/09/2009 - 23:20.
Our #1 center is in Tampa Bay... playing out the string for an embarrassment of a franchise. He'll be moving north by the summer. Just a gut feeling...
Submitted by G-Man on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 05:01.
Will you stop the "Vinny is coming" nonsense.It's not going to happen.
__________________________________________________________________________________
Beliveau is the best that ever was.
Submitted by saku11saku11 (not verified) on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 08:12.
I don't want that huge contract but you do know that BG tried to land him right? Tampa is the team that backed out of the deal.
Submitted by BKAK72 on Mon, 03/09/2009 - 23:33.
Hard to imagine that Tampa Bay is going to keep his salary/contract. The state of Florida is in economic free-fall, housing prices in Miami alone are down 45% this year alone! I just hope that our own finances are in place to take on a contact like Vinny
Where's our #1 Center?
Submitted by Kaptain K on Mon, 03/09/2009 - 23:04.
At least this 100 year anniversary was eventful.. lets see what did we have: (beware, the following may be out of order..im tired, please excuse me)
- Amazing hot start to the season.
- Crazy festivities
- Sweet jersey nights
- Roy retirement
- Unveiling of the statues
- ALL STAR GAME (or Kovy day)
..THen the bad
- Kovy's slump, PRices slump
- The rest of the HAbs slump
- Kovy's banishment
- Kovy's triumphant return..
THE UGLY...
- THE SCANDAL
- More Goalie troubles..
- A ray of hope named Halak?
???
- Halak sick, Price back
- Price finding his groove...players dont even know how to spell groove
- FINALLY A GOOD WIN!!!
C DAY (Carbo Day)
Gainey as Coach for the rest of the season.
- Possible upset and Stanley Cup?
(many people are calling this year a joke...I think it was very eventful... you know what they say, emotionally charged events are associated with long-term memory... This is gonna be a YEAR to remember)
HAppy 100th Anniversary!! XD
Submitted by Propwash on Mon, 03/09/2009 - 23:07.
Well, better to go out a lion than a lamb as far as i am concerned
Losers Even After Forty one Seasons
Submitted by craz11 on Mon, 03/09/2009 - 22:54.
You Koivu haters are ridiculous.
The guy's playoff scoring average is like 1.5 points per game.
Over an 82 game season that would be 123 points. I figured I'd do the math for you, as I'm pretty sure simple arithmetic is beyond your mental capacity.
Submitted by lefreak on Mon, 03/09/2009 - 23:02.
if there is anything this team really needs, it is more players that are at the end of their careers.
what good is 1.5 ppg (is it? the like tells me you pulled that stat out of your a$$ and i did not check) if you don't make the playoffs or you only get 5 playoff games a year.
we aren't a retirement home, less so for 4 to 5 million a year.
Submitted by Harditya_CareyPrice on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 00:58.
eyy bro well u are right its not close to 1.5 point per game, but its pretty good.. these are koivu's stats in playoffs:
1995-1996 - GP:6 Pts: 4
1996-1997 - GP:5 Pts: 4
1997-1998 - GP:6 Pts: 5
2001-2002 - GP:12 Pts: 10
2003-2004 - GP:11 Pts: 11
2005-2006 - GP:3 Pts: 2
2007-2008 - GP:7 Pts: 9
so in 50 playoffs games..Koivu has 45 points pretty impressive
but not 1.5 points per game, its 0.9 points per game average
i'd say thats pretty good
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