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Loyalty, cash and a reunion
posted by Dave Stubbs at 6h13 EST on Jul 3
Aislin on Koivu's value to the Canadiens:
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Dave Stubbs has been a sportswriter since 1976, which was roughly a decade after he wore the first of many holes through the knees of his jeans playing nets in road hockey (using a modified butterfly popularized by Hall of Famer Glenn Hall). He still has the welts to show on his shins from that rotten, frozen orange ball.
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I will follow Koivu wherever he goes.
Ex nihilo nihil fit
I'm sorry, but I just don't buy into that whole money thing. When you're making 3-5 MILLION a year I don't think you wondering the best way to pay less taxes. I gotta tell you, to me I WOULD NEVER take 500k to play in toronto over Montreal. He knew he would be given the C as some point. It makes no sense. I mean at least we have a chance for success and going for the Cup in the next few season. I just don't see Toronto going anywhere in the next 3-5 years.
There HAS to be more to it than that. I'm not talking loyalty im talking success in your field. I know I have an inbred deep rooted hatred for the leafs. So maybe this opinion is a bit biased. HOWEVER, looking at our new training facility, our city, our fans, and our possibility how the heck can you choose 500-750k a year over all other benefits. Someone give me a better reason. I don't think he is a traitor, its justa different team, and the only ones who think its treachery are us Montrealers. Long Island Natives don't get this. But there is no way you can tell me for less than a million each year WHEN YOUR MAKING 4 already, you choose to uproot and move. With him our future looks bright... With Him in TO it's still raining. I DON'T GET IT.
The best place in Canada "tax wise" is Alberta, last time I checked few head that way on their own initiative. Komisarek is a D**K and we all know this as HABS FANS. Every single member on this site pays to wear THE SWEATER - what a jerk. I hope he fails miserably b/c the fans in Toronto will give it to him as they did to McCabe and Larry Murphy a time back.
--I will die a delirious fan and never apologize for it!--
if anyone has komisarek as a friend on facebook...ask him why he bailed!
- thanks for everything, saku koivu.
Koivu sucks. Can't skate, can't shoot, too small, too slow = gone. No other team has signed him yet 'cause they know he sucks.
Get over your captain crush.
Are you drugged?
Either you're an intigator or an idiot. I'm thinking an IDIOT. But seriously, not one person in the NHL thinks Koivu is anything but incredible. He brings in ALOT more than most at his salary.
Personally I think it's time for him to him to move on. I want him have a chance to make something on another team as well. He deserves the Order of Canada for what he has done here in Montreal.
Koivu had offers from serval teams so far. Just check back and see. Kovalev has not recieved an offer from any team. That goes to show why other teams does not want a cancer victim on their team. He is a ofensive type player and plays with little intensity from time to time. Kovalev needs to play with alot of motion and earned the respect from other teammates. At least Koivu has earned that much.
I'm finding the whole player loyalty concept a little amusing today.
1) In the same positions, most of us would do the same thing: follow the money. Oh, I'm sure many reading this are saying, "No way!" but I think it all goes out the window when you're looking at an extra $2 million in your bank and a nicer tax structure. Greed is perhaps one of the most primal human emotions, and one which I have yet to meet somebody that is free of it.
2) I need only watch the playoff game and see the jeering that Carey Price took to see how fan loyalty can turn on a dime. Many of the same people cheering Price in November and stuffing the ballot box to vote him in as the All-Star Game starter were the ones kicking (with reckless abandon!) a 20 year old kid while he was at his lowest. Does anybody here really think that other guys on the team didn't take notice of what happened to Price? And do we really believe we've seen the end of the long-term ramnifications of that ugly incident?
Well to be fair, the Sedins remained loyal to the Canucks.
At least give Gainey a chance, I think Komi owed us that much.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them." - Sam Pollock
I think he did give Gainey a chance. At the end of the day, the contract he signed with the Leafs was 5 years at $4.5 million per year, or $22.5 million over the lifetime of the contract. According to Eric Engels, the Habs offer was 5 years at $4 million for a total of $20 million. The Leafs got him with an offer that was more than 10% higher than the Habs offer, with further savings in the form of the Ontario vs. Quebec taxes. So the number is probably closer to 15-20% better in reality. None of us wanted to see Gainey go as high as $5 million for Komisarek, especially with so much money already tied up in the Markov & Hamrlik.
I don't begrudge Mike Komisarek anything...he played hard for the Canadiens, he stuck up for his teammates, he was always ready to face the music when the team stunk and he played hurt. He selflessly put himself in front of shots all the time and provided one of the few physical presences on the team during his tenure here.
And on top of all of that, Mike Komisarek was a good teammate and a genuinely great guy during his stay. Booing Mike Komisarek the way fans have ridden Briere, Hossa and all the others that they feel have spurned them is small-minded and ultimately pointless. It won't affect the game, and it does show fans elsewhere how ungrateful the Montreal crowd can be.
Gainey himself said he never heard from the Komisarek camp after they (the Habs) made their offer and Gainey had to move on. So no, I don't feel he did give Gainey a fair chance.
Like others have stated, Komi had no desire to return to Montreal!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Fans are great, but the quickest way to start losing is to listen to them." - Sam Pollock
I think mostly you are right. But I do think that loyalty comes into play for smaller differences of money, not big differences (Ryder, Streit) where the guy can get almost twice as much elsewhere.
And you have to remember these people are deciding where to live their lives, where there families will be. And who their boss is. The saying goes that people don't leave companies, they leave bosses. Treating players well - from GM to coach and on down - DOES carry weight. How can some people keep their best players through most of their careers (cough - Detroit - cough), while others lose them as soon as they start to gain star value (cough-montreal-cough). Loyalty CAN be built. But it's tied to recognition and recognition is tied to money as well as other things. As Engels said, if Bob had offered Komi 4 mil/year in January would he still be a Hab - probably yes. Bob's holding EVERYONE up for so long was a problem and certainly worked against any loyalty people felt. His big mistake was Carbo -and leaving Carbo in too long so he didn't have enough time to make the right decisions about his players earlier. Poor decision making... does not improve loyalty.
~ Listen to the smart dog - he knows his poop!
Well first off we never even offered ryder or streit anything and had we i can bet they wud be in mtl jerseys still! Then look at koivu he never even thot of leaving until he was pretty much kicked out this summer because we didnt offer him a contract. So not everyone feels that the organization treats them poorly. Now komisarek is a different story if you think we treated him poorly think about when he was behind the habs bench while injured last season. He had nothing bad to say about the organization. And had gainey decided to sgin everyone mid season we wud have the same team as last year and everyone wud be complaining why he didnt save some room for new players or for vinny or wtrv.
Im not saying i wouldnt want komisarek back but for 4.5 million i dont think hes worth it especially since he never rebounded back after that lucic fight and we dont know if he will regain his edge. If he doesnt then hes a pretty useless player.
Anyways there are other organizations who are much worse off at retainning players like florida who couldnt keep anyone. Montreal has good player relations and maybe not signing komi turns out to be a good idea!
There are a considerable amount of people who attend hockey games who have NO IDEA what the game is about. A lot of people go there because they learned through other people that the team was back on the map. THOSE are the people who booed Pricey and booed the team after the Boston series. If all fans at least had some knowledge of what the game is or who their players really are, like most of us on HI/O seem to, we wouldn't see that sort of thing happen.
crabvader, those people can be known as "Bandwagonners", my biggest pet-peeve
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Taylor Hall on the 2010-2011 roster
Is the hockey world frozen or something?
"Rebuilding the team around Kovalev is a road to nowhere" - 24 Cups
RFA signings and extensions I suspect are keeping things quiet...teams don't want to go into next season with a lot of RFA's on their hands...binding salary arbitration would be a nightmare for cash-strapped teams.
Boring day, that's for sure.
Good analysis of the Gomez trade here by Scott Cullen:
http://tsn.ca/columnists/scott_cullen/?id=283349
"The Rangers win this deal, hands down, if only because of the financial implications of the trade. Perhaps Montreal has more moves in store that will make this deal more palatable, but it's still not going to justify including a top prospect like McDonagh."
No kidding. I still think Bob loses his job over this one. I honestly think Bob has lost his compassion, and to some degree his judgement. Maybe the stresses of this job and his family together have been too much. The way he let Lever go, the lack of respect paid to Saku, this second 'sweep' of players... he hasn't fallen to terrible, but he had definately fallen to ordinary. Very ordinary.
~ Listen to the smart dog - he knows his poop!
Welcome to two days ago! And if your friends jumped off of a bridge, would you do it too?
I couldn't agree more. Everyone has taken it for granted that the Canadiens are considered to be a class organization when it comes to handling its players and traditions of the team. Of all people, Gainey should be sensitive to this. But for some reason he's not. The list is a sad one of how he has dealt with those who've exhibited loyalty and commitment to the bleu-blanc-rouge: Koivu, Carbonneau, Lever, Jarvis and yes, even Kovalev to name those that come immediately to mind. In view of the current mercenary trends of many players, it's especially distasteful to see such behavior dished out to a guy like Kovalev who has accepted less to remain with the team in the past. For a long time his playmaking creativity was the sole spark on a team that featured a woeful lack of scoring talent. That excitement was what made him a fan favorite.
I don't disagree that the Habs needed changes to improve, but as the expression goes, you don't throw out the baby with the bath water. What the 'new look' Habs seem to have is a potentially effective and rather expensive line. Can Gomez deliver more than 16 goals for all that dough he's collecting? Can he and Gionta recapture past scoring chemistry? Can Cammaleri be as effective here without having anything like an Iginla in the lineup to draw the heat away and set him up?
These guys better click because there's not much else on the team who can. The Habs may be in danger of becoming a small, one-line team with 2 or 3 other lines of plumbers, journeymen and rookies. If the checking line of any opponent can shut down that one line then the Habs will be basically punchless. To not sign at least 1 or 2 from the group of Tanguay, Kovalev, Lang or Koivu to anchor a second strong line to take some of the checking blanket away from the new line is just playing with fire. If Gainey is unwilling or can't because he's blown all the available cash, then next year has all the ingredients for a frustrating and painful season.
If Bob wasn't the icon that he is in Montreal he would have been fired after the Centennial Year fiasco. Only a legend would have the power to have another chance at redemption. I don't doubt he has earned that chance, but I wonder how long the team will pay if it fails.
As for the lack of compassion, the four alarm bells went off for me the way he treated Kovy and BGL. So out of character for the man who always did things in private and was a man of his word.
I agree. There are no supermen. There's no way that Bob's family tragedy, the hiring and firing of his friend and coach, and all the pressures of the 100th year, and so much more that we don't know about, have not worn the man down.
One thign remains though - the knock on him in Dallas was that he gave out contracts that were too long. Same story, different city. The Gomez thing makes me want to start cheering for the Pens - what a smartly managed team and great to watch. If the guy is even in the top 20 point getters in the league I'll take it all back... but he won't be.
~ Listen to the smart dog - he knows his poop!
When you look at the length of contracts Gainey hasn't handed out anything nearly as long as Holland in Detroit, Holgren in Philly, Lawsen/Feaster in Tampa, or Talon in Chicago.
Those teams are all faced with terms of 8 to 12(!!!) years. When players are looking for term and money, I think Gainey did pretty weel to only have to give 5 years.
What does the length of a contract have to do with anything? If a player has shown value and the GM actually has a strategy and wants to build a solid team around that player or players, why wouldn't he want to secure their services for the long-term? It seems to work in Detroit. And now Columbus wants to build around Rick Nash. Bearing the future success of that franchise in mind, why would they want him to walk after a couple of years?
Then we have the opposite extreme. Gainey gives up last year's first round and this year's second round draft picks to get Tanguay. He only has one injury-shortened season and so hasn't had a real opportunity to show his talent. Gainey makes no serious attempt to re-sign him. The net result.....the loss of a player he obviously thought was worth acquiring in the first place and the loss of two high draft picks on a team that doesn't get a shot at many higher ranked prospects. Way to go Bob. At this rate he'll deplete the Habs supply of future talent in next to no time and have absolutely nothing to show for it.
Bingo! I am through argueing with these people. Let the games begin!
I have a sinking feeling Higgins will have a break out year in NY and will outscore our 8 Million dollar man. Higgins was one of the few players on the team that had heart and a winning spirit. So Bob trades him on the brink of his break out, again he shows his seeming lack of judgement about talent.
Wouldn't it be ironic if Higgins becomes the number one centre in NY that we have looked for so long?
You're exhausting.
Just skip my posts like I do yours.
~ Listen to the smart dog - he knows his poop!
Eric Engels suggests Travis Moen a good fit for Habs....watcha think?
Definitely. I'd love a guy like Ryan Clowe also. Trade, sign, wtv.
Doug Janik will be truly missed....
What do you guys think about taking a stab at a guy like Ales Kotalik? If the price is right, of course...
I like Kotalik.
Before the Gomez fiasco, I was under the impression that:
a) we'd resign Koivu and Kovalev
b) we'd add to the core one of Cammilleri/Havlat/Hossa/Gaborik
c) we'd add secondary scoring (Samuellson/Kotalik)
d) we'd add a solid 2-way player in a trade for Higgins.
e) we'd win the Stanley Cup in 2010
Something happened to Kotalik, he went soft and his play became very inconsistent. He is in super shape and is a mystery.
A) unchecked
B) check
C) unchecked
D) check
E) TBD
2 for 4 isn't so bad...
- thanks for everything, saku koivu.
Problem is D.
The 2-way guy we got cost us too much cap-space, which meant we couldn't do either A or C.
Gomez's $7.3 million hit makes it impossible for us to acquire the depth we need to be a true contender for the Stanley Cup.
If our opponents shut down our top line, it'll be the EXACT same story as last year, as we're the EXACT same team after the Seafood Line.
Can you explain "the Seafood line"?
The shrimps - Cammalleri (Kalamari), Gomez, Gionta
The Cam and GI Go line....LMAO!!!!!
didnt montreal sign some swedish guy this summer ????
http://habsinsideout.com/main/20123
Mikael Johansson
Johansson has seen a great development as of late. A skilled player that can be used both on the wing as well as play center. He is a good skater with impressive hockey sense and fine technical skills. Controls the puck with ease and stickhandles smoothly through traffic. Not very big, but plays with some grit and handles larger opponents well. Could improve some aspects in his defensive game
23-year old centre/LW
5'10" and weighs 182 lbs., has scored 95 points in 203 games in the highest Swedish league with Farjestad. Johansson was originally drafted by Detroit in 2003 (9th round)
i liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike!
Mikael Johansson. 5'9... 9th round former Detroit pick.
it's great how you're unimpressed by this player...yet know everything about him...
but he was a solid scorer the last 2 years in sweden so under the right situation he could turn out to be a good complementary winger...right circumstances are probably not lined up with camalleri and gionta :P
- thanks for everything, saku koivu.
Where did I say that I was unimpressed?
seems like you're pointing out that he's a smurf and a red wings reject so we shouldn't expect too much.
timmins said he spent more time in sweden this year than others...this is one of the talents he must have unearthed while he was over there.
- thanks for everything, saku koivu.
9th round by Detroit is a positive, in my opinion or I wouldn't have pointed it out. 5'9 is the only downside I see to this guy.
well...pointing it out could have gone both ways...
but i'm interested in the guy since he's part of our organization...hopefully he surprises.
- thanks for everything, saku koivu.
I'm more interested in Dany Masse!
you mentioned him last night..is he part of our organization?
- thanks for everything, saku koivu.
Yup. http://habsprospects.hockeyhq.net/
Very nice, detailed site with all our prospects.
cool thanks
- thanks for everything, saku koivu.
so he is still in sweden, after training camp we'll know if he joins the habs or stays in sweden ?
he might come to training camp, but i'm sure he'll either be in hamilton or sweden next year...
So Hickey talks a pretty cheap shot at Eric Engels in his column today! So weak Hickey. Engels is also promoting Habs I/O over at Hockeybuzz and guarentee that is how a lot of people even found this site, yet you take a cheap shot at him...And the funny thing, ENGELS IS DEAD RIGHT WITH WHAT HE SAID ABOUT KOMI!...At least he responded over at hockeybuzz in a more diplomatic way instead of blindsiding someone. Journalistic integrity is not one of your qualities huh Hickey?
dandy was apparently offered a contract by the bruins..
is claude julien the GM or peter chiarelli?
anyways dandy doesn't want to sign and is hopeful that habs show interest in him throughout the summer...somtehing that i'd love for to! dandy is a professional and he'd be welcome on my team any day.
- thanks for everything, saku koivu.
I wouldn't mind having Dandy come back at all... I have a lot of respect for him... especially after he broke his arm and still finished his shift. You're absolutly right, the guy is a professional.
"How would you like a job where when you made a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?" Jacques Plante
Maybe Komisarek didn't want to play in Montreal anymore because he's American and our fans frequently boo their national anthem.
There's not much fans can do to help, but ours seem to try to hurt our team as often as possible.
Hey fellow Price fans I thought I would let you know that there is a great Price toy figure....
here is the link:
http://www.spawn.com/toys/product.aspx?product=3897
I have that one on display proudly. :)
along with my tanguay and kovalev figures.......
looks like he's ducking OUT of the way of a shot.
Very realistic!
:-)
Those McFarlane figurines are somethin else.
Fine! Let's get our hands on some more English Canadians and Americans because obviously the French-Canadiens who are available are to chicken-sh$# to play in Montreal.
... Courting Koivu / New York Times: ..... http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/03/the-morning-skate-courting-koivu-rangers-vulnerablity-and-teemus-last-time/
People talking like the 1st line needs some size. I'd like to put forward a proposition put forward by POPS on another thread (slight variation):
Line USA: Pacioretty-Gomez-Gionta
Line Canada: Cammalleri-Lapierre-Latendresse
Line Europe: A.Kostitsyn-Plekanec-S.Kostitsyn
Line Energy: Laraque-Chipchura/Metropolit-D'Agostini/Stewart
I'm really worried about the Tit's bro's ....what are they going to do ?Redeem themselves for last years efforts?Can they??I have my doubts....I'd trade them if I could with Plecs....
I think all three of them will really step up their play, big time,now that Alex I AM YOUR FATHER, DARTH VADER Kovalev ,has left the building.
They'll stilli be looking over their shoulders for the first few weeks untill they realize that he really isn't coming back.When they start to relax they will finally reach their true potentials..
Just a hopefull scenario..
As other people noted, they were tearing it up pre-season with that line. I think under Martin they will all thrive, unless of course they get traded. It's make or break time though!
Where's Kovy in that line up?
H - What do you have against Cammalleri.
I have nothing against Camalleri at all. I like MaxPax on that first line tha's all to add some size. I love Camalleri with Lats and Laps. I am only repeating POPS' insight on this and I like it a lot.
;) He posted this comment a bit further down the thread. My reply......
Very clever!...and true.
Bryan, I responded to you in the "La ville est hockey!" thread.
Let's hope that even though our top line is short, that they play like Henri Richard. he was no taller than 5'-7", so having a top line of pocket rockets is alright with me,
Maybe we can change the name from the smurfs to the Pocket Rockets!!!!
"To you from failing hands we throw the torch. Be it yours to hold high."
The first line might be small... but Cammaleri and Gionta drive to the net as hard as anybody in the league and they go to the dirty areas to score goals.
"How would you like a job where when you made a mistake, a big red light goes on and 18,000 people boo?" Jacques Plante
Fine, but let them earn the Pocket Rockets. For now they're the Smurfs.
...or the Seafood Line: Calamari and two shrimps!
I didn't make that one up.
I'll give you that one for now, but after they prove it, we should change it. we don't want to be known as the smurfs, our team has had a lot of history and class over the past 100yrs to be called the smurfs.
"To you from failing hands we throw the torch. Be it yours to hold high."
Watching Gionta's goals... Man...Very pretty ones. Lots of hard fighting in front of the net, LOTS of deflection goals while posting himself up there.
that'll be a nice change...
Last year Komo had his worst year as a Hab and I figure Oby played better if not the same.Let's look at it realistically ,Komo has a hard shot that one day will kill a fan in the crowd cause it sure as heck isn't headed toward the net(thank god for the mesh),he's an average skater and many time's last year got deeked,average passer and in no way a play maker,he fights like tom the bomb,he constantly crosschecks apposing members on the goalie and he wants to much money.Have fun playing against B.G.L...LOL
Definitely my complaints as well. Never a goal from the point when you need it, bad skater, constantly out-thought by opposition, too many bad penalties.
At 1/2 the price maybe a second chance, but no way for what the Leafs paid. Utter foolishness and desperation.
who was there before trevor timmins and what was wrong with him ???.....eric chouinard over gagne...and a guy named GOMEZ
interesting year... in the thrid round the habs nabbed beauchemain, but missed brad richards, brain gionta, erik cole, jarko ruutu... florida took jaroslav spacek in the fourth round.... later Habs chose mike ryder but missed out on datsyuk....
following the links on the page , we drafted Francois Beauchemin and gave him a 1 game chance , now we want him back , really weird ,
i didnt even see that, thanks for breaking my heart!.....
:(
I thought Mtl lost Beauchemin to the waiver wire in the year after the lockout when the new rules took effect.
I may be wrong though...
His name was Rejean Houle and he was a useful player, a good employee, an affable ambassdor... but an unmitigated disaster as GM. The guy responsible for him being in that position was named Ronald Corey. No single individual did more damage to this franchise than he.