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Maybe number 6 will be available by the time he makes the jump ...
posted by Mike Boone at 13h04 EST on Aug 3
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Mike Boone
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I grew up in Park Extension, within walking distance of Dickie Moore's Dairy Queen on Jean Talon. Moore had a place on L'Acadie Blvd., and we used to see him driving around in his convertible with a Samoyed and a very dishy wife.
While "studying" at McGill University during the 1960s, I used to attend games at the old Montreal Forum. My fellow undergraduate reprobates and I would scramble up the stairs to get centre-ice spots in the top standing room section, where aged ushers didn't know or care what we were smoking.
I stood out in the cold for six hours to get tickets to the 1975 New Year's Eve game between the Canadiens and Central Red Army. With the exception of the birth of my daughter, the 3-3 tie was the greatest event I've ever seen in my life.
The Canada-U.S. Gold medal game comes close .... but I wasn't there.
I've been a professional journalist since 1974, when I joined the Montreal Star sports department. I've covered the 1976 Olympic Games, the 1979 Expos, pop music and MSO tours of Europe and Asia (classical musicians are WAY more fun to drink with than athletes). I wrote a TV & Radio column for 20 years and, since 2000, have written a City column for The Gazette.
The best part of being a Habs Inside/Out contributor is attending games at the Bell Centre. I think it's a great building: noisy, raucous and packed to the rafters with Montrealers and visitors who live for hockey.
And I still get goosebumps every time Michel Lacroix booms out "Accueillons nos Canadiens ..."
Having seen the Boston Red Sox win two World Series and the Pittsburgh Steelers add a couple Super Bowl titles, I suppose I can die happy ... but not before another Stanley Cup parade. And I'd really like my daughter to see a historic New Year's Eve game.
I like all the players. Covering baseball gives me a profound appreciation of pro athletes who aren't jerks.
My weltanschauung was summarized by the late great Bill Hicks when he said "all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves."
Have a nice day.
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They'll say "no;" we go back to bed and leaves things as they are. Seems we'd be helping SJ and Ottawer MORE than we'd be helping ourselves. Gomez may have attracted Cammy and Gio, but I still think we helped out NY more than we helped ourselves.
So screw Ottawer. Screw'em. We should rejoice that we will not only be witnessing this "distraction" stagnate but that we also laid a helping hand in NOT giving them a helping hand.
Screw'em.
...
And screw SJ too, those choking punks.
Peace Out
_____________________________________________________
Lord Bugs Potter, esq. Vicount of Vernersvurgh, Duke of Dickleberger and Follower Extraordinaire of The St.Flannel.
Wow. Mr. Bean agrees. You must be on to something.
"For the new Habs to all play even NEAR the level of their contract would be a sheer miracle." - SD
... Something Smells in Glendale: Did the city steer the Yote's franchise to an insider ? (very interesting read) ... Phoenix New Times ..... http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2009-07-30/news/glendale-the-coyotes-and-the-john-kaites-connection/1 .......... The record suggests, in fact, that Glendale City Manager Ed Beasley is trying his best to hand over the Coyotes to his friend, lobbyist John Kaites, and Kaites' Chicago buddy, Jerry Reinsdorf. The deal might well suck for the team's current owners (who stand to lose millions) and its creditors (who suggest they're getting a raw deal).
The goal at 1:35 is just amazing, he goes inside out on a guy a so bad he falls, then the reads the play and finds his guy that was left open by the player falling. Offensive Awareness: A+
Mike Green who?
Beautiful pass (on the backhand) on that play too...
Markov + Subban ... that's gonna be sweet
That's if none of them is gone by then !
----- go habs f*ckin go-----
Great video. PK's technically sound -- nice skating skills, pretty saucer passes, sees the ice well, etc.
Can't wait to see him develop in Hamilton.
That is if he develops. Playing in the OHA and AHL are 2 totally different leagues. LOo of OHA players that bloomed in junior never made it to the OHA but in the Swiss or Italian leagues.
I'm not sold on PK. We've had too many prospects like Wilkie, Bilodeleau, Sarault, Charron, Charbonneau, Patrick Lebeau, Bobyk, etc...etc... and they never amounted to anything for our team.
I'll see it when I believe it if PK has what it takes to play in the pros.
"We will win the Cup one day only with a mature Carey Price in the nets"
Nothing personal, I know it's a term that the marvelous TV announcers of the day are using, but what exactly is a "saucer" pass? Is it the same thing as a "flip" pass where a player flips it in the air to get it over a stick of an opponent? Where do they come up with these squirrely terms?
flip pass is different then a saucer pass
I expect PK to start in Hamilton and maybe struggle for the first half of the season. He has shown himself to be a special player at the top end of junior hockey.
He will have to adjust to bigger and stronger players (no 16 year olds in the NHL) as well as the pro life.
I still expect that he will continue to grow, mature and turn into an NHL all star player. I think he makes Yannick Weber a long term prospect as Weber is too small to be an effective even strength player at this stage of his career.
I would expect PK to play the whole season in Hamilton as we have a surplus of big league d-men.
I can see it now....
2012-2013 season - Markov and Subban #1 and #2 in scoring for defensemen!
It's going to be another interesting year in Hamilton. Some really interesting prospects to watch. Subban of course, hopefully all year long (he shouldn't be rushed). And I think it will include Pacioretty and Webber. Plus Maxwell, White and Carle. Fortier must be headed for Hamilton right?
Cheechoo sucks. And the West German d-man had the worst (-12) plus/minus on a team that had a pretty favorable GF/GA spread.
what do you think of gionta then? Cheechoo has done more than Gionta......http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/2100/career;_ylt=Aq4MNGZ3s0JRndiVwZ2K6KtivLYF ....look at Cheechoo's shotting percentage......this is the same thing that people overlook with most scorers....sometimes the puck doesn't go in but over time averages take over....if he had shot his career shooting eprcentage the lst 2 seasons he would have had 29 goals and 21 goals......at roughly 60 percent of and less than half of Gomez's........his career year 56 goals, his secon best 37 goals (only Cammalleri can boast 2 great seasons of our newbies. If we were willing to take a 5 million dollar chance on Gionta then it seems that we would by default be willing to try Cheechoo if the right deal presented itself. Cheechoo lost his pp time to setoguchi.....no shame in that...that kid can play......Cheechoo in the right lineip can still light it up and curiously enough I think our lineup might be one that would suit him. Gionta put up 50 points last year on 5 on 5.....impressive.....give his p time to cheechoo and I think you lose nothing on the pp, perhaps even gain and benefit at 5 on 5 for a reasonable salary. This is just another rumour but it is one that I can see being more suitable than it appears at first glance.
Gionta is much better skater for one. Cheechoo, after the injury is even slower. I dont know why we are comparing Gionta and Cheechoo. We should be comparing Cheechoo to Pleks in this case. I actually like Pleks better in that comparison even though everyone else here is ready to run Thomas out of town at the end of sharp sticks.
I like Pleks.....and have been one of his most consistent defenders on here....I'm fine with him as our number 2......i just can't help but wonder if there isn't truth to these rumours though as his name always comes up.......we know theylike Halak, we also know htey are in a cap crunch, and we also know they want to shake things up......from our perspective is seems shaking things up would be the greatest understatement of all time....cheechoo would fit our supposed new identity well IMO (as would Pleks) but the fact that he is a pure scorer, pleks signed for one year, we have gomez who is essentially the same player as pleks (just better at it...don't get me into the salaries lol) I can't help but still think we are looking for a number 2 guy with a little different skill set (if one can be found that is......we are sitting ok in that number 2 slot right now with Pleks and potentially cammo if need be......I still want to add a top six or at elasxt top nine guy and Cheechoo is worth the flyer IMO.......cheechoo for pleks is a wash to me.....but erhoff for halak is a no brainer.....the "prospect" in a rumour like this given sj's salary situation would likely be a chipchura, dagostini, carle, webber, etc type guy IMO......considering the chances of halak staying after this year are slim to none IMO than I would do it......then I would set my sights on Patrick Sharp .......I still haven't ruled out Bob making an even bigger move.....I thought he was done but the reports of us involved in tradetalks seem pretty consistent and I can't help but believe he is still hard at work and blockbusters are still being discussed.
If Gomez, Gionta and Cammi were escorts they would comand $25000.00 A night ,where as PLECS WOULD be a $ 20.00 trick,lol
I have an idea...after watching tthe first couple minutes of that video it just became apparent to me....we have our rbig, right handed centerman....he justs thinks he's a defenseman........lol.....I was impressed by his passing...a couple risky ones but overall it indicates he isn't lacking in creativity and or vision. You have to wonder how these guys end up defensemen......was it to play more?did a coach want him on the ice more?...does he have stone hands in tight? ...I am just joking but man in that video he sure doesn't look like a defenseman...
His number is 76 for now. Used to be 56.
He's a lot better defensively than most people think, and is still young enough to grow. Has that wicked shot, speed, can skate backwards fast without tripping over himself, is scrappy, has the ability to spring up the ice like a forward and fall back quickly to defend, is a natural leader, has the drive to win... preseason is gonna rock again with him. Last time he even got Markov inspired to do a spin-o-rama.
No way Bob trades this away
... an interesting scenario - Coach Boudreau Told Me I wasn't Good Enough / Michael Nylander ... by Japer's Rink ..... http://www.japersrink.com/2009/8/3/974041/nylander-boudreau-told-me-i-wasnt .............................. Lighthouse Project - For Islanders and their Fans , Tuesday critical moment for future ..... http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/For-Islanders-and-their-fans-Tuesday-s-critical?urn=nhl,180451
This is almost official:
Halak, Plekanec and prospect to San Jose for Cheechoo, Earhoff, and a prospect.
I'm really bummed if our prospect turns out to be Subban.
I got it from a very good source, let's see if it comes to pass.
"I respect your opinion, but you're completely wrong!"
what bar did you hear that one?
How do the Habs manage to take on 6.1mil when they only send away 3.525mil?
magic...remember Bob is the Magic Man...
Interesting....It would be sad to see Halak go, but I do like Cheechoo. I wonder who the prospects involved in the deal are? Thanks for the information. Eklund isn't all over this right at the moment so this actually has a chance of being true. Something also tells me your source might be more reliable.
I can see this deal happening....despite not getting a center back....as much as the other rumoured deals anyways. We have already addressed the whole Cammo can play center if necessary thing and with the acquisition of Gionta it almost makes sense ( I really don't see the three free agents palying together outside of pp......just my gut feeling although it seems to be a given to many people). The fact that we would get another scorer (whose career best is better than Gionta's so anyone knocking Cheechoo better not be overvaluing Gionta IMO...they both had one dream season but a realistic goal is likely 30 goals or so for each of them). Cheechoo and Erhoff have also played a defensive first game in San Jose and it is apparent that aside from Cammalleri that has been a requirement ( acquiring guys used to play traps and/or very efensively detailed systems that focus on speed an capitalizatin on turnovers). Who says there wouldn't be more deals in the works if this went down as well.....IMO the only trading partner that will EVER allow us to get fair value for Halak is the Sharks.....I would be all for this move.....I think he will walk for nothing next year anyway as it has been made clear for sometime that Mr. Price is our guy. We would obviously have a surplus of dmen if that trade occurred....a forshadowing of more to come during the offseason that has provided us more entertainment than all of last seasons actual hockey season. I would like that trade.....obviously it poses some cap questions and depends on the prospect but if it happened I would not be unhappy at all.........I still have this lingering feeling that Gainey is stll targeting a centerman somewhere right now(if possible...pleks is a suitable guy if need be but you gotta be talking and listening right now if yer Bob.....where there is smoke there is usually fire an Pleks seems to be the new Higgins tossed around in virtually all trade talks)......
I wouldn't be surprised to see something like this go down at all....Marleau obviously makes more sense for us but Erhoff and Cheechoo are each as good as Pleks and they both have reasonable contracts.....we would be giving up a backup who we won't get anything for and a prospect (I would be upset if it were MaxPac, leblanc or Subban but anyone else would be worth it for me...and if McD were still here he would have been untouchable too). Then we would be a dman too deep and Hammer becomes expendable.......if we can dump his salary for a prospect or a 2nd or third round pick and fringe player.......that asset and the cap space would still keep us in the hunt legitimately for another decent player (in my dream world it would be Sharp...but Cammo is always the default guy if need be). This deal would open all sorts of possibilities but it wouldn't appear to complete the puzzle for either team.....it is pretty interesting though as there are still tons of big deals floating around out there this offseason with guys like Kaberle, Heatley, Tanguay, Sundin, Kessel, etc all being shopped......some teams still need to clear space ( Hello Philly)...others have money to burn........August is going to be dramatic IMO......who nows what is happening bhuind the scener right now because just the brief list above indicates that there are several good players keeping teams in shop mode......
I love hockey gossip and tell eklund I said hello lol.
Sure hope you're wrong.
"For the new Habs to all play even NEAR the level of their contract would be a sheer miracle." - SD
You heard it from me....SUBBAN is not going anywhere! Are you kidding me? He is a player which we can build around in a year or 2. I don't see this happening. Maybe Halak will be traded but not until we sign a solid #2 goalie. There is a rumour out there that we are going after Grier. So I see us signing a goalie fisrt befor halak is moved.
No way Subban is included in that deal. If prospects are involved, I'd guess we trade a defense prospect not named Subban (Carle) for a forward prospect. I also don't like the fact that we wouldn't be getting a center back.
Where is the Ottawa angle in all this?
Why on earth do you think Subban would be included?
Cheechoo and Ehroff?...I wouldn't trade Subban straight up for those mugs...
XXIV...and counting
It doesnt make sense that the sharks would want Halak. In 23 career starts with San Jose, Boucher as a backup is 15-5-3 with a 2.11 goals against average, .924 save percentage and 3 shutouts. And it doesnt make sense that Gainey should get rid of Halak.
Boucher is a Flyer now...
Right you are, my mistake.
That does not make a lot of sense. The Habs would be short a scoring center without Plekanec and would have a surplus of defencemen (Ehrhoff).
See my comments above....Subban is not going anywhere! But Ehrhoff might be a fit IF Gainey has deal in the works to get rid of Hammerlick (the 5.5 mil per year pilon).
Good reasons also. I dont see how this trade makes sense to any of the teams.
Peace Out
_____________________________________________________
Lord Bugs Potter, esq. Vicount of Vernersvurgh, Duke of Dickleberger and Follower Extraordinaire of The St.Flannel.
Surprised we got him in the second round, with the offensive talent, why pass up on him? You can teach defence, but offensive skill is something you're born with. I have high hopes for this guy, hopefully in Hamilton he is tought proper defense and is able to show his offense playing in a tougher league.
Slow day on the board.
Question: Would you trade away Hamrlik, Pleks, A. Kost, and a 1st rounder for Dany Heatley?
"For the new Habs to all play even NEAR the level of their contract would be a sheer miracle." - SD
we don't want that piece of dog excrement on our team ever!!
erm..no offence smart dog
lol
Pleks, AK and AK the elder re-united!
DEAR GOD NO!!
No.
I would because whatever they say about Heater, he's a performer of rare skill. Imagine if Cami, Gomez, Gionta, AND Dany all had 'pretty good' years. We'd be the top scoring team in the league. If our D is nearly as good as people say it's going to be, we'd be unstoppable.
Yes I DO believe that the addition of one solid, consistant, actual star could make this happen.. despite my doubts otherwise... so I guess that's my other reason.
"For the new Habs to all play even NEAR the level of their contract would be a sheer miracle." - SD
Bryan Murray would never trade a 50 goal scorer to a division rival...so that kinda axes it before even discussing whether it's a good deal or not.
While I agree that this trade is strictly a just-for-fun speculation...Murray would absolutely be able to sell this to the local media...he'd inform them that he was able to get 2/3rds of the 2nd line they so desperately need, a veteran defenceman, and a pick for the future.
Now just to make it really in the realm of fantasy, if they perhaps signed Comrie to a $1.5m contract and then included him in the deal...well we'd be set (he'd be our 2nd line centre).
I would in a heartbeat...alas we have no one who could take the role of 2nd line centre if we made that deal...
I agree with you. I'd do it, then worry about our 2nd line center after. With guys like Heatley and Cammalleri, not to mentin Gionta on the wings, we'll sort out the center position somehow. Dany would be sweet in a Habs sweater... especially when we visit the Sens.
"For the new Habs to all play even NEAR the level of their contract would be a sheer miracle." - SD
No, hurts the depth of the team and the locker room takes a hit too.
The kid has some sick moves! Must be pretty strong on his skates to fend off attackers with one hand while dangling at such high speeds. Just wondering though, is he mis-cast as a defenseman?
Why is it that we (and yes, I would include myself in this group) overinflate the value of our prospects so much, and then turn on them in short order?
Everyone is salivating over Subban, but as soon as he makes a couple of mistakes (and he will), the boo-birds will assail him and we'll get 350 posts wanting to include him in a trade for Lecavalier.
We cannot wait to see our prospects, then can't wait to get rid of them. Makes no sense. Takes time for the kids to develop, and there are bumps along the way. I thought one of the reasons Carbonneau didn't build on his early success is because he was so afraid to play the kids because of the intense scrutiny from the media and the fans.
As much as I cringed when Price was between the pipes late last year, I also thought it showed a lot of testicular fortitude from Gainey to keep tossing him in there, and it should pay dividends down the road.
Our young kids all took a slight step back. Hopefully under Martin, they can move forward again. That's the real way to build consistently successful squads.
I don't know that we over-estimate our prospects, but we (not me! ) definitely turn on our prospects after the several mistakes. Take OB as an example... he's played something like 60 games in the NHL and everybody is ready to dump him-when he scored in his own net was the worst example of fans turning on a player.
PEOPLE - it takes about 300 games for a Dman to get his game to the poing that he is a caliber NHL player...that's almost 4 years as a fulltime player. OB isn't anywhere near that! GIVE HIM A BREAK!
Good point. The fans and media should give the youth a longer leash.
Why are we inflating it? Because he skates like the wind. Because he makes BEAUTIFUL zone-clearing passes. Because he has offensive skill in spades and isn't afraid to take risks and head for the net. Because he played great in the pre-season. Because he was DOMINANT at the Worlds. Because he PROVED himself to be a CLUTCH player.
But most importantly, and if that wasn't enough, Ryder, because he TALKS like a winner. He loves the game, he loves our team, he is charismatic, and he is CONFIDENT as heck.
Of all his attributes, this is the one that excites me the most and the reason why, personally, I had him ahead of McDonagh on my depth-chart. Confidence.
Is it wrong of me to inflate his value for that? Not OVER-inflate (never); but JUST inflate?
Peace Out
_____________________________________________________
Lord Bugs Potter, esq. Vicount of Vernersvurgh, Duke of Dickleberger and Follower Extraordinaire of The St.Flannel.
P.K. Subban has the-next-Larry-Robinson written all over him.
Really?
Explain please.
More like Guy Lapointe. Or hey, Chelios. Which ain't too shabby. But Robinson? Easy, there.
Peace Out
_____________________________________________________
Lord Bugs Potter, esq. Vicount of Vernersvurgh, Duke of Dickleberger and Follower Extraordinaire of The St.Flannel.
i got out a sharpie and wrote Guy Lafleur all over myself this evening. unfortunately, it aint that easy. if it was I would have wrote Albert Einstein!
Plus, there's the whole having to write backwads in the mirror so that everyone else can read it properly thing that makes it really difficult.
others have mastered far more difficult skills on HI/O, turning Guillaume Latendress into Jean Beliveau for example, i think i could get a handle on that!
Speaking of getting a handle on that, how many times do we have to flush before you go away?
i knew that mentioning the great latendresse would bring a response from you. it was as predictable as exlax!
if my posts are exlax then yours are what exlax provokes
;-)
Your need to always have the last post reveals the truly microscopic size of your penis.
where'd Henri go? you retired him for that piece of crap? as funny as it is..........sigh
Henri will be back. This is my expression of disgust with the whole Pheonix fiasco. I am hoping that it will be Bettman's Waterloo!
I'm glad to see that people are realistic...most people seem to be acknowledging that he needs at least a year in the AHL before he's ready for NHL time.
Subban has a LOT of work to do in Hamilton. From the games I've seen him play in the OHL over two seasons, Subban is a bit behind Drew Doughty in his all-around game. Doughty played well last year for the Kings, but still only put up 6 goals and 27 points. For those that keep track of these things, that is the same number of goals and 6 less points than Roman Hamrlik!
The catch is that Harmlik is a much more stay-at-home defenceman, and he out-scored Doughty despite playing 2 minutes less of ice time per game. Furthermore, Hamrlik did it while playing on the 2nd PP unit.
Subban should be good. But there are no sure things in hockey, and a year or even a year and a half in Hamilton will be great for his development. By that time, some of the stop-gap defencemen the Habs have brought in (Spacek, Mara, Gill) and Hamrlik will be ready to move on and the kids (Subban, Carle, Weber and Fischer) should be ready to fight it out for at least a couple of those jobs.
Doughty's strength though isnt putting the puck in the net, its keeping the puck out of his net. Im pretty sure the LA coaching staff isnt caring or ragging on him that he ONLY put up 6 goals. The kid's a champion and the future standard by which future defensemen will model themselves after.
Ermm...Doughty was drafted as an offensive defenceman. He was the top offensive defenceman in the OHL while paired with Ryan Parent here in Guelph.
Offence VERY much is Doughty's strength. His best season in the OHL (21 G, 74 points) outpaced the best seasons by either Weber (20G, 55 PTS) or Carle (18G, 69 PTS) and was comparable (but with 50% more goals!) than Subban (14G, 76 PTS). And he did that on a team that was more defensive in nature, whereas Subban has had the benefit of playing on a very offensively gifted Belleville Bulls team the past two seasons.
doughty 21 G and subann 14 G and thats a 50% difference? I was 98% avg in HS math and something doesn't add up there. lets see 3x7=21 and 2x7=14....would you say a difference of 33.33333333333% difference? thats just off the top of my head and i could be wrong.
lol............i'll take the assists anyday for a guy smart enough to get back when he's supposed to
14 goals: 50% of that is 7 goals. Therefore 21 goals is 150% of 14 goals.
Or if you prefer, 21/14 * 100% = 1.50 * 100% = 150%.
Things change. Some NHL enforcers had quite the offensive skills in the juniors.
I'm not sure where you are coming from on this one. Just about all the scouts expect Doughty to become the next big offensive defenceman. He led the Kings defencemen in PP time and was only 3rd in SH time amongst Kings defenceman.
Doughty had a great start to the season but hit a bit of a wall. As with most rookies, look for him to improve over the next two years as he adjusts to NHL speed and strength. Like Subban, Doughty relied heavily on being the best skater on the ice in the OHL, right down to using spin-o-ramas multiple times per game. Doughty will be a top-10 offensive defenceman in the NHL within 4 seasons.
I cannot wait to see P.K. in Hamilton next year. It's gonna be unreal.
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Montreal Canadiens Blog @ http://yourhabs.com
Peace Out
_____________________________________________________
Lord Bugs Potter, esq. Vicount of Vernersvurgh, Duke of Dickleberger and Follower Extraordinaire of The St.Flannel.
Perhaps...but there won't be any shame in him struggling. He's going to be working on his defensive game, so his offensive numbers could suffer, especially if he's fighting for PP time with Weber and Carle who are already further along than he is and are also great PP players from the point.
I don't think Carle has any chance in this world to outplay Subban offensively. I think you're stretching by quite a mile to say Carle is a great PP player. 29 points in 59 games is solid, but not spectacular by any stretch. PK and Weber will be playing on the first PP in Hamilton unless Hamrlik gets traded, in which case Weber will be in the bigs. Not to mention that with Carle's tendency to be injured Subban would get numerous opportunities on the 1st wave of the PP regardless.
Carle has put up his AHL numbers...lets see how Subban does against professionals this coming season. Carle's offensive numbers in junior were very impressive as well, albeit in the Q where offensive production is a easier to come by.
Subban was fortunate to play his past three seasons with some very, very good OHL players in Belleville that should make the NHL: Shawn Matthias, Eric Tangradi, Matt Beleskey, Bryan Cameron, Nigel Williams, Shawn Lalonde...all are very good NHL prospects. They also played a very up-temp style that resulted in a ton of offence. This is not to take anything away from Subban, but you need to take his production into consideration as well.
I have not seen Carle play more than a couple of games as a rookie in Hamilton, so I have only scouting reports to go off of. I have watched P.K. Subban a number of times live: I watched him play 3 games in the Memorial Cup 2 years ago as well as a couple of games in the OHL finals against Kitchener, I've caught a couple of Bulls games in Belleville and I always catch them when they are visiting Guelph, where I currently live (Belleville are the closest team to my hometown, so there is a natural affinity for them). And then you also have his scouting reports.
Habs fans largely base their opinions of Subban on his World Junior performance, which was good, but hardly a generational performance...he was not even on the top pairing. On the flip side, guys like Thomas Hickey or Ryan McDonagh were disparaged because of their WJ performances. The difference was they were trying to shut down the top offensive players on the opposition in what is often a glorified all-star game environment. The WJ tournament has always favoured offensive talent over defensive talent: the players simply do not play together enough to develop a good defensive communication or team defensive system. A guy like Subban is naturally going to shine in such an environment. To get a more accurate feeling for his ability and potential, I think you have to watch him with his day-to-day teammates in the OHL (and AHL this year). This will not be a collection of the best players in the world in his peer group...it is a much more realistic situation to what he will face in the NHL. I, for one, will be very curious to see how he does in Hamilton. Andre Benoit was another offensive defenceman that absolutely tore up the OHL while playing for an offensive powerhouse in Kitchener from 2000-2005. He never got a sniff of the NHL.
Subban is a very, very good prospect, but he's still a prospect, and one with just as much risk as any other out there. As an example, Subban is not rated amongst the top 50 NHL prospects on Hockey's Future. They have both Carle and Subban as 7.0B players (3-4 defencemen that should reach that potential)...I think that is underselling Subban's potential a bit, but I do see Subban as a Mark Streit like PP specialist for the first few years of his career that will hopefully work hard on his defensive positioning so that he has to rely less on his magnificent skill set: it was enough to get by in the OHL, but now professionals are bigger, stronger and faster than 16-19 year old teenagers in the OHL, and the gap between his skills and those of his opposition will be much, much smaller.
If you're confident that he's more ready than Ryan Ellis, what about Mike Green? Green, who played in the more rough and tumble WHL and is also a very solid guy, also needed 2/3 of a season in the AHL. And he played for a miserable Washington team that was short on NHL calibre defencemen. Subban will be trying to crack a team that has Markov, Spacek and (barring trade) Hamrlik providing offence and locked up for at least 2 more seasons. Dumping one of those salaries will take a Herculean effort on the part of Gainey to make room for Subban.
OHL +/- numbers are largely irrelevant...if you play for a powerhouse team, you are going to have big numbers. Belleville was a powerhouse team, with great OHL scorers spread out over two offensive lines and two defence pairings.
Despite Hickey's struggles, he was still the shutdown guy in the final. The Canadian coaching staff was still changing up their pairing to get him on the ice against the other team's top guys. So yes, he struggled, but they still had more confidence in him and Teubert than anybody else on the Canadian blueline. He and Teubert still played the first shift on every PK in the tournament unless they were dead tired.
As for Subban's physical game, I unfortunately have to disagree with you there. He can handle being hit, but in the 10 games or so I've watched live (and I've keyed in on him for all of those games...I love watching Habs prospects!), he has shown very little in the way of physical aggression with the exception of one pretty devastating bodycheck in the Memorial Cup final (which took a groin shot off a faceoff by the opponent on Subban to instigate him into retaliating). Other than that, his physical presence does not stand out at all. That's not a big problem: the stars in the OHL often float a bit when it comes to the physical side of the game as they don't want to jeapordize their NHL careers or draft status getting hurt.
As for the last comment, you are right that the NHL staff will make the decision. And I can pretty much guarantee you that he will be in the AHL...Martin is not stupid, and I'm sure he has watched Subban outside of a World Junior tournament as well. I just hope that the team does not rush Subban along, a la Price or Latendresse, to cater to unrealistic fan expectations. I think most would agree that Price has been rushed far too much, while Latendresse clearly could have used some time in the AHL although the team did not really have that luxury, lacking forwards with size when he was brought up. They do not need offensive defencemen in the NHL right now, so Subban will have the chance he needs to hone his craft.
By the way, thanks for a great discussion!
Peace Out
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Lord Bugs Potter, esq. Vicount of Vernersvurgh, Duke of Dickleberger and Follower Extraordinaire of The St.Flannel.
Anyone know if the Cube got signed yet,Frankie was a good man for the C.H.,TOUGH AND HAD HEART....
Nope he hasn't signed yet. I am baffled about 2 players. Bouillion and Dandy. They should both be signed but they are still in limbo...
3:50 of video and not ONE subbanese spin-o'-rama? great video otherwise!
Sorry, I don't mean to be contrary, Sanjay, but I think there is one 'spin-o-rama' move at the 1:09 mark of the video.
BTW I met PK playing a practice round the day before the Bull's annual golf tournament this summer. I found him to be an affable, well-grounded and approachable young man. He'll be the first to tell you he can't golf worth $#it though! He said he would have to improve his game, when and if he makes it to the big leagues. I told him not to worry, we just want him to play hockey like he did at the World Junior's, and anything else is just gravy. In my opinion, he was the best D-man on the ice, for any team, including Ottawa's Swede who supposedly won the D-MVP award (The fix was in, as far as I'm concerned, because the tournament was in Ottawa). He also mentioned that he thought Jacques Martin would bring stability to our club. I'm looking forward to watching him excel in Montreal.