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Dave Stubbs
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Dave Stubbs has been a sportswriter since 1976, which was roughly a decade after he wore the first of many holes through the knees of his jeans playing nets in road hockey (using a modified butterfly popularized by Hall of Famer Glenn Hall). He still has the welts to show on his shins from that rotten, frozen orange ball.
Stubbs kept thick hockey scrapbooks filled with game summaries and Gazette and Montreal Star stories, collected dozens of Bee Hive Corn Syrup photos and put a fortune of hockey cards through the spokes of his bikes. First book ever owned: Scrubs On Skates, the classic by Scott Young (Neil's dad).
Stubbs's fantasy is to travel back in time to the 1950s and watch the great Canadiens dynasty that won five consecutive Stanley Cups. Or a decade earlier, to watch Elmer Lach centre Rocket Richard and Toe Blake on the fearsome Punch Line. Or at least to get Rogie Vachon into the Hockey Hall of Fame – where he belongs.
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I hope the hell someone is tring to help AK46 he sounded mad as hell and full of resentment.Is this the kovalev crap that the coaches do not like Russians or his brother being sent down but a talent is being wasted here and someone has to figure it out,not just hes a professonal and should know.
We left Ryder out to hang streigt the same .How many have we let go for nothing.and here are looking for players who speaks to players when they are having a hard time?
I agree wholeheartedly. It is always frustrating when some of our so called 'misfits' do so well elsewhere.
I'll be going to Dogs game in Ottawa too, excited to see Karlsson and PK go head to head.
We might have the first legitimate call-up in the person of Carle. If given the chance I believe this guy will be here to stay.
mjames
Je suis
Sieur Bugs Potter, écuyer. Major-général du dépôt de munitions Fort Gainey, contre-amiral du torpilleur de classe-II Sainte Flanelle, et sous-secrétaire du ministère de la Défense Tricolore.
Anybody noticed how well M. Darche is playing in the Hammer? Guy's 33 in couple of weeks, and he's got career minor-leaguer written all over him. I don't remember him doing anything remarkable in the preseason. But he's got size and does one thing many Habs don't: park his arse in front of the other team's net. All his goals come from within 10 feet.
Not sure what his waiver status is, but maybe it's time he got another cup of coffee...
"Guys who are just offensive, they don't get very far." Oh I don't know, there's a few around here who get around. Anyway, I've said it before and I'll say it again, PK will eventually lead this team to great things.
Hindsight: USAtoday.com first round review of 2003 draft, (Article from June 2003) featuring AK46, Shawn Belle, Horton, Getzlaf, Parise, Richards..
10. Montreal, F Andrei Kastsitsyn. If not for concern about his epilepsy, he could have been a top-five pick. One of the most talented players in the draft.
17. New Jersey, C Zach Parise. The Devils are successful drafters because they make this kind of pick every year. They trade up to get a pick needed to grab a player who has slid more than he should.
19. Anaheim, C Ryan Getzlaf. Probably won't be a top-line center, but he will play on the second line and will score goals simply on the strength of his gumption.
30. St. Louis, D Shawn Belle. First-rate skater from Tri-City in the Western Hockey League. He won 60- and 150-foot dash in the Top Prospects Skills Competition.
Looking at things now, there is almost 10 players drafted in that round BEHIND AK46 that I'd rather have on our team..
As many posters here say .. hindsight is 20-20
Now, I know that this has been talked about at least for 100 times on this website, but what is interesting to see is how for (example) Getzlaf was projected - a 2nd line center.
Depends on where you look. Some mock drafts had Getzlaf going as high as 5th, others had him slipping into the late 20's.
Some scouts had him pegged as a top line center, others as a checking center.
Scouts really don't have too solid of an idea where most of these guys are going to end up. A lot of that is on the player and how hard they want to work to maximize their natural talent. You also have to throw in other factors like supporting cast, the fit of the player into the system of the team that he is drafted by, personality of the player and their fit in the market, etc.
Montreal's prospects have it pretty tough. There is an inordinate amount of pressure on their kids to develop into superstars overnight. Look at a guy like Sergei Kostitsyn...he was a 7th round draft pick, a throwaway pick that the Habs seemingly got lucky on. He's only 22 years old and has already seen his career arc follow a meteoric rise to the top of the Habs prospects heap, some good play in his rookie season as a 20 year old, a sophomore season (that wasn't anywere close to as bad as many would like to assert) that resulted in a banishment from the team for PR and salary cap reasons followed by the circus that has occurred this season. Now, the vast majority of the fan base can't wait to banish the kid to Atlanta, Los Angeles or Minsk, so long as he's not here.
Now we have P.K. Subban, the next prodigal son working his way onto the Habs prospect roller coaster. He's currently on his way to the top of the biggest peak...our can't miss future superstar around whom a Stanley Cup winning team can and will be built. Then he will come up, play well at the beginning, elevating expectations and hype to crazy levels, and then the inevitable backlash will hit. He will slump. His defensive shortcomings, well-known for his entire career but ignored because of his pedigree and personality, will suddenly be front-page fodder. Fans will get on his case about his gaffes. He may or may not redeem himself and make it to his unrestricted free agency year without the Habs dumping him for peanuts. And, in all likelihood, he will be unceremoniously allowed to walk away, because the next big thing is crawling on his car back at the start of the roller-coaster, and new, shiny players are just so much easier to place your hopes in than the ones for whom you now know all their deficiencies.
Even if we HAD drafted guys like Parise or Getzlaf, I'm not that convinced that they would be the players they are today if they had to run the craziness guantlet that Habs prospects have to run.
There is a reason that Montreal hasn't drafted and developed a 100 point scorer since Mats Naslund did it in 1985-86 nor a 50 goal scorer since Stephane Richer did it for the second and last time in 1989-90. Bad drafting is a big part of it, but unrealistic expectations leading to destroyed confidence is also a contributing factor.
The Montreal Canadiens might lead the NHL in Stanley Cups, but the vast majority of those came before 1980. Since 1980, the team has seemingly led the league in destroyed careers amongst its "can't miss" prospects. I certainly can't think of a team that has drafted so many highly regarded prospects only to see nary a one live up to that potential.
I agree with your description of one hell of an ugly cycle.
Patrick Roy being the obvious exception.
Roy is an interesting case. He is one of the cockiest and most arrogant athletes in all of professional sports. Perhaps that is the only way you can succeed in Montreal...we need guys with that unbelievable self-motivation, ambition and drive to survive in this crazy market.
And even in Roy's case, fan fickleness eventually took it's toll...
... took it's toll, but didn't ruin him or keep him from reaching his potential.
He is a unique character, no doubt.
thanks Chris, you've sure got it right. breaks my heart to read that, but those words have been in my thoughts for a long time.
It's a worrisome trend.
Even on the current team, look at some of the players and what they are dealing with.
D'Agostini, Price, Latendresse, Lapierre, Andrei Kostitsyn...all of these guys have been far more highs and lows in fan sentiment than any young player should be exposed to. It's crazy.
I am really upset with the attitude of hockey people form the NHL right through to the government and police for not taking hits to the head as a criminal act.
Can you people remember the hit to the head of A. Kostinson last year ? He has never been right since then. Don't people realize the long lasting effects of having your brain scrambled against the skull. And most times permanent damage. It is time to stand up and make a noise people.
Any hit to the head, by accident or intentional has to be removed from the game. When players did not wear helmets or heavily armoured elbows, there were never these kinds of injuries.
There will be someone killed soon, to go along with the hundreds of neurology conditions that already exist with players and former players. It is up to the public citizens to send written complaints to the government and police authorities in both here and State side, if the NHL cannot get the players to have respect reinstated in our game.
We as fans can make a difference if we wish to save some lives people, or do we also not give a damn about our fellow human beings. Time to stand up !!!!
2 thumbs up, Ian.
Thanks Ian,
I ve seen boxers anature and pro with hits to the heand that left them in a different state of mind even after one punch.
I agree entirely Ian. Perhaps, it will start with announcers not saying "GREAT HIT!" when they occur. It seems to me that since prime head hunter, Scott Stevens, famous "hit" on Lindros, I'm seeing more and more of these things. Either no one but Don Cherry realizes that players are dressed in suits of armour that can be used as weapons or the NHL wants someone killed. Intentional head shots are not "good hits". The head hunters need to be punished and/or weeded out.
I agree to an extent, but I'd rather just see, at least for starters, a minor penalty (or more) for ANY hit to the head, whether "clean", accidental or otherwise. There is enough area on a player's body to check while avoiding the head. After the fact, each case can be reviewed for possible fines and/or suspensions.
Go Habs Go!! "I can't hear what Jeremy (Roenick) is saying because my Stanley Cup rings are in my ears" - Patrick Roy
Paul.! I am surprised at you. You don't change things by pissing against the wind with a two Minuit penalty. Some people are already damaged between the ears and death is just around the corner.
Not every hit can be treated the same way. I'm saying accident or not, there needs to be a penalty. Obviously, there are many that will deserve more than 2 minutes and in some cases fines and suspensions....at least. There may also be some cases where just a penalty is warranted...maybe minimum penalty can be 5 minutes, but I doubt every single hit to the head warrants an ejection or suspension, but I could be wrong.
Go Habs Go!! "I can't hear what Jeremy (Roenick) is saying because my Stanley Cup rings are in my ears" - Patrick Roy
About A. KOs... Isn't he the one that has the Epilepsy?
Yes
It's time for the league to have new management. While Betman is in charge nothing will change, Ian.
Timo- I am going to speak to a few people to see if I can bring a private members bill up in the house or put a citizen's complaint to bring charges to the NHL level or hockey Canada. I will start my research now.!!
I think you are wasting your time with criminal charges, Ian. The route to go here is via the rules committe of the various hockey federations.
In some martial arts, you are more than welcome to take a shot at your opponent's head. Boxing allows head shots. Mixed martial arts allow head shots. Football allows head shots in certain situations. Soccer players that do not master the header have no future in the game.
There is simply no way you will ever see charges laid for making contact with somebody's head. These guys know that these types of hits can occur and continue to play the game anyways.
I hate head-shots with a passion. But the people to get this changed are the players themselves...maybe they need to talk with guys like Jeff Beukeboom to see how much head trauma during their playing careers can haunt them through their post-NHL lives.
Agree with the rules committee comment but disagree with your comment re: criminal charges. While Ian may never see it through to law the action in itself would bring additional focus, and press, to the issue. In that regard, GO IAN!!!
If we're serious enough about this issue we will raise it in any forum available. In the end press, public and political pressure combined would have a great impact on the players and the rules committee.
But do you really think anybody would take it seriously? How do we, as fans, even suggest the idea of laying charges for something that is still deemed legal within the rules of the sport being discussed?
There are ways to bring this issue to the fore. Start with some profiles of players like Jeff Beukeboom, Pat Lafontaine or Adam Deadmarsh, guys whose careers were ended early because of concussions. Beukeboom has been particularly vocal about the need to institute changes...give him a larger soapbox.
We fans need to get behind initiatives like the London Hockey Concussion Summit that was held in February, 2009. Fans need to somehow disabuse themselves of the idea that the big hit should also result in injury...only then can you start to regulate head shots out of the game.
It's going to take safety education at the grass-roots level, efforts that are underway and have started to yield positive results. For example, more NHL players today are wearing visors than ever before. Don Cherry, in one of the few useful things that xenophobic idiot does, has helped boost player safety awareness with his leadership and sponsorship of the "Stop" campaign. We need to coach our kids how to hit properly, as opposed to encouraging them to hit violently.
But most of all, perhaps, we need to coach sportsmanship and fair play in youth hockey. I've coached youth soccer for a number of years, and fair play and sportsmanship are integral parts of soccer culture (or at least should be, if the coach is doing their job). I'm always amazed that I don't see more of a fair play initiative in hockey...if you respect the game and your opponents, you are less likely to run around like a testosterone-fueled seek and destroy automaton on the ice.
On Latendresse......he made the team on his own merits with a fantastic training camp......then the team decided to keep him with the club......he ahd his ups and downs....at some point management had to decide whether or not he should stay in the minors prior to him having to clear waivers if we sent him down.......managemnet made that decision and we were stuck with him. He has not been that bad but he is not here because he is French he is here for the same reason Chipchura made the team this year....because otherwise we would lose him for nothing. Gullaume is improving and is not a liability out there to me at all...he not playingup to his potential but I believe the work ethicv is there and he is working hard......where that leads I don;t know but this nonsense about him being French and that he is God awful are getting a little much for me. He is what he is.....a guy with upside, who happens to be French that the organization rushed along and now has to deal with th growing pains (which unfortunately are traditionally longer with power forwards). If anyone wants to blame anyone for this...blame the organization not Latendresse or his heritage.
I am not denying that there was intense pressure for him to make the club from the French.....but at the same time he was playing well enough to eanr his way onto the team at that time. The team ultimately made the decision and that decision is binding unless we want to expose him to waivers in which case he would be picked up in a heartbeat. I am jsut content knowing that his skills ahve been improving year after year, the results have not but I can live with that for now as he is still about 2 years from where traditional power forwards find their game. He is frustrating but so is the constant harping about him.......if given the choice of watching Gui play or listening to people knock a 22 year old kid averaging 16 goals a season as a third liner with virtually no pp time who has been improving his weaknesses every season? I think I'll be watching Gui......if we want to trade him for a similar prospect or in package that makes us better now and later? I can live with that but letting him walk or throwing him away
you are right, he is what he is, a pretty productive 3rd/4th line hockey player. It's laughable the b.s. that is posted on here about him considering the large number of players currently residing on the Habs who would love to be as unproductive as Gui is. He'll never be much more than a 2nd/3rd line forward but so what. The Habs roster right now seems full of palyers who would be happy just to be unproductive 4th liners.
Gui! made the teeam cuz there was a spot open and we had no one else to fill it, enda story. ...pressure from the French, gimme a break...
Wouldn't it be great if everyone was English? Then there would be no pressure because the English know what's best and would always do what's best, right? And then Gainey and cie would make perfect decisions concerning prospects, right?
...french pressure...yeah, right.
Je suis
Sieur Bugs Potter, écuyer. Major-général du dépôt de munitions Fort Gainey, contre-amiral du torpilleur de classe-II Sainte Flanelle, et sous-secrétaire du ministère de la Défense Tricolore.
Do you think that the media or the francophone fans had nothing to do with the Habs drafting Louis Leblanc this year? Do you really believe that he was the best player available on Timmins' list?
I think that Habs management sometimes has to throw the french media dog a bone and Latendresse may or may not have been one of those bones. He played great in training camp but he's not the only young player to have done so in the past and not make the team.
So when we draft a Slovak, we're throwing Slovak fans a bone, right? And American prospects, we throw a bone to American fans, right? And Russians to Russian fans, yeah? That's how that works. Throwing bones; not picking talent, right?
I see. Thank you.
Je suis
Sieur Bugs Potter, écuyer. Major-général du dépôt de munitions Fort Gainey, contre-amiral du torpilleur de classe-II Sainte Flanelle, et sous-secrétaire du ministère de la Défense Tricolore.
I don't know when Leblanc should have been drafted. But I do believe there's a decent chance that Timmins/Gainey were influenced by either the media or the fans at the Bell in choosing Leblanc.
Hell, the media were talking about Leblanc being available for the Habs weeks before the draft. No other player outside of the Big 3 (Tavares, Hedman, Duchene) got the coverage that he did.
I wonder what the reaction at the Bell Centre would have been had Timmins picked Chris Kreider.
Know who he is? He was drafted 19th overall right after Leblanc and is also a centre.
Here's a little scouting report on him :
"Chris Kreider a dominating player, who dangles in tight spaces at high speed, cuts hard to the net, and is arguably one of the top skaters in this draft at any position.
He is so strong on the puck that if the opposition doesn't stop him in that neutral zone, they are gonna have bigger problems when Chris gets the the pistons at top churn. One stride to top speed. His downside is being from a New England Prep school, Phillips Andover, the competition is far less a measuring stick than players in Junior A."
Sounds like he would of been a good fit for us as well. Big centre with speed who isn't scared of going to the net.
Not hating on Leblanc as I do think highly of him, I'm merely suggesting that it's possible that Habs' management were influenced in picking him.
Je suis
Sieur Bugs Potter, écuyer. Major-général du dépôt de munitions Fort Gainey, contre-amiral du torpilleur de classe-II Sainte Flanelle, et sous-secrétaire du ministère de la Défense Tricolore.
You say it is ridiculous, and I think it IS fair to say that Montreal will pick the best player available, regardless of nationality or background. However, I think it is equally ridiculous to deny the possibility that the Habs would opt for a French-Canadian player first in a situation where they have a number of players ranked equally.
Look no further than Pierre Boivin's response to criticism that the Habs don't draft enough French-Canadian players:
"To say that we don't have that sensibility, that's an absolute lie," Boivin fumed. "It's at the heart of our decisions. Not one team focuses more on Quebec players than the Canadiens. Not one team has taken more [players] from Quebec since we've been in place, [general manager] Bob Gainey and I."
So either Boivin has no idea what the organizational mentality is, or the players you mentioned simply were not ranked as highly by the Montreal scouting staff as the players that were chosen instead. As Boivin has pointed out, the Habs have chosen more players from Quebec since all other teams in the NHL...why is that the case if, as you assert, it is ridiculous to believe they might factor in how the decisions might play out within their marketplace?
If the discussion relates only to first round picks, then I can believe that your point has merit. I do think the Habs had Louis Leblanc rated highest on their draft board. I also think that Latendresse was a steal at 45 in 2005...many people felt he was a wild-card that could easily have been drafted in the 1st round.
However, the first two or three rounds usually have players that teams have scouted quite thoroughly and therefore the team's have more informaton on hand with which to make informed decisions and/or quantitative differentiation between the prospects. In the later rounds, it's more of a crap shoot and more subjective criteria start to come in. You see player's drafted to appease the home fans, you see teams occasionally taking chances on relatives of current or past NHL players, you see teams drafting super high-risk/high-reward players. It is in the later rounds that I would expect to see more of a bias towards French-Canadian players, and to be honest, I would expect every team in the league to try and pick some players from their own back yard in those situations.
Giving the fans some home-grown underdog prospects to root for is never a bad idea.
Too bad it's unrelated to the debate between Krobbie and I. Yes, they SHOULD opt for French-Canadians first. But Mr.Bob Gainey and cie will NOT be dictated who to choose by succombing to "French pressure" nonetheless.
Je suis
Sieur Bugs Potter, écuyer. Major-général du dépôt de munitions Fort Gainey, contre-amiral du torpilleur de classe-II Sainte Flanelle, et sous-secrétaire du ministère de la Défense Tricolore.
Note that I did not reply to your replies to Krob...I replied to one with Smiss. :)
In particular, I was drawn in by the following comment:
"So when we draft a Slovak, we're throwing Slovak fans a bone, right? And American prospects, we throw a bone to American fans, right? And Russians to Russian fans, yeah? That's how that works. Throwing bones; not picking talent, right?"
In the first 3 rounds, it is pretty much all talent. But after that, bones have been thrown around with fervour by Gainey and Timmins. And some of those bones have, at least to me, clearly demonstrated some acknowledgement of the pressure to draft more French-Canadians.
As for your back and forth with Rob, it all centered around this sentence from Rob:
"I am not denying that there was intense pressure for him to make the club from the French.....but at the same time he was playing well enough to eanr his way onto the team at that time."
Latendresse had a couple of good training camps but clearly wasn't ready for a top-6 role in the NHL. Expectations, however, were stupidly high...fans and media alike were jumping on the bandwagon to get Latendresse onto the team. The difference I have with Rob is that it was "from the French". It was actually from just about everybody...Latendresse in 2005-06 was to the Habs what P.K. Subban is today: a shiny new toy that everybody hypes above all reaasonable expectations.
That being said, Montreal needed a power forwards, and Latendresse fits the bill better than anybody else they had in the system at the time, both then and now. That is why he is on the team. We had a need, he had the body, here he is. End of story.
Your point seems to be that Gainey would never accede to that pressure...couldn't agree with you more. (But it doesn't mean that the pressure therefore doesn't exist.) Gainey saw a need on the team, Latendresse was the best fit for that need, and here he is. End of story.
The rest of this seems to be a battle over semantics, which is why I've stayed out.
Je suis
Sieur Bugs Potter, écuyer. Major-général du dépôt de munitions Fort Gainey, contre-amiral du torpilleur de classe-II Sainte Flanelle, et sous-secrétaire du ministère de la Défense Tricolore.
Either you didn't read the post or you are looking for a dance partner Bugs........I'm your huckleberry! I'll be happy to debate but I refuese to argue about things that were never even implied or said ......you obviously need to go back over that post again. If you don't believe there was pressure from the French than you are living in a dreamworld........at no point did I say that was why he made the team...in fact I said the opposite but like Gui will be Gui....Bugs will be Bugs?
I said what I always say: generalizing French (or English) all-encompassing motives because some poster disagrees with a certain direction the team chooses to take sticks in my craw. Always has.
French pressure, pff! Ridiculous. Yeah, that sounds like Gainey alright, folding under the pressure.
Je suis
Sieur Bugs Potter, écuyer. Major-général du dépôt de munitions Fort Gainey, contre-amiral du torpilleur de classe-II Sainte Flanelle, et sous-secrétaire du ministère de la Défense Tricolore.
so to recap.....pressure was not why he made the team...never said it...never thought it...he made the team because he earned it.....you have some serous issues with tunnel vision Bugs ......if you have issues with the words French and Pressure being side by side...fine but don't try and put words or thoughts in my mouth or post that weren't there.....sometimes you are funny and sometimes.......Seriously if you read my post again and come out of that still believing what you just wrote than I can't help you....noone but you can.
Youare obviously choosing to see two words, pull them completely out of context and run with it...I can do it too.....Did you just say Gainey folded under the pressure? he folded? what? Gainey does not fold...I can't believe you would say something like that.....PFFFF! Ridiculous!!! I can't believe you think Gainey folded under the pressure....PFFF! RIdiculous! ......seems kind of stupid doesn't it?
Did I misinterpret, Krobbie? This is what you said, whether it was to temper an argument favouring Gui is beside the point. This is what you said. I disagree with that as I would with pure folly.
The "debate" has ended, I see. Now, you defend your pride with a supposition that I misunderstood, whereas your own words above show that I did not. That's what you said.
Furthermore, using my own words "against me" has negative effect, Krobbie. Because rather than seeing my own words under a different angle as you hoped, I am instead flattered that they have had such an effect on you that you chose to appropriate them.
Je suis
Sieur Bugs Potter, écuyer. Major-général du dépôt de munitions Fort Gainey, contre-amiral du torpilleur de classe-II Sainte Flanelle, et sous-secrétaire du ministère de la Défense Tricolore.
Saying there was French pressure is one thing....a true thing at that, common knowledge and if no such thing existed than why did you say it with respect to Kovy ?(you said "there was French Pressure to keep Kovy")....PFF! Sacre Bleu!! Ridiculous!! you said it with your own words lol.....You then somehow used your warped interpretation system and somehow linked that to me saying that we caved to that pressure when I clearly said he earned his way on the team. Picking words or phrases out of context is pretty juvenile to me and your little tidbit on using your own words against you being a compliment to you and that I approriated them is in fact admitting what you do....try and twist people words.....only you are not very good at it (that is not a compliment).
You said you didn't deny there was French pressure. That's what you said. It was totally in context since that's what you said. Not twisting your words at all, so no, you're right, I'm not good at it since I don't do it.
As for using my own words, you're wrong; I am exceptional at it. You must agree since you used them too. And again in your last post, only adding exclamation points (which I never used) to compound the defence on your pride which seems to be your main focus now and that, you will agree, is truly juvenile.
Bob Gainey does not succomb to French (or any) fan pressure as to his roster appointments. The implication that he does is totally ridiculous, whether you don't deny that it has occurred or not.
Je suis
Sieur Bugs Potter, écuyer. Major-général du dépôt de munitions Fort Gainey, contre-amiral du torpilleur de classe-II Sainte Flanelle, et sous-secrétaire du ministère de la Défense Tricolore.
Since you are so proud of your words I'lll use them .....
Yes, there WAS French pressure to keep Kovy, Krobbie (as I pointed out) and how did that work? Does this not PROVE that Gainey doesn't give two squirts about the "French pressure"? I stayed on-track. You got on me originally for using the phrase French Pressure did you not? Because otherwide you are arguing with yourself again BUGS as nothing else in post implies anything about this caving to the French Pressure (glad I can use the term now that you have) as I stated the opposite and clearly without your twisting skills Gui earned his way on the team.
You said you didn't deny there was French pressure. That's what you said. It was totally in context since that's what you said. Not twisting your words at all, so no, you're right, I'm not good at it since I don't do it.
You are correct I said I do not deny there is French pressure....nor do you apparently as you said that it definitely exists.....so what exactly are you arguing about anyway?
As for using my own words, you're wrong; I am exceptional at it. You must agree since you used them too. And again in your last post, only adding exclamation points (which I never used) to compound the defence on your pride which seems to be your main focus now and that, you will agree, is truly juvenile.
Well it seems to me that if we go back it was you who chose to use my words first (although out of context but now I am practically plagarizing rubbish....who would have thought it would be so much fun) so thanks again BUGS...you are making this very easy....I've seen you perform much better in that past and I am quite disappointed you don't have your A-game today as I am kind of enjoying this lol. Your words really are better than mine as your own words should (if your pride can digest it) allow you to now see you like to pull things out of context and run with them.
Bob Gainey does not succomb to French (or any) fan pressure as to his roster appointments. The implication that he does is totally ridiculous, whether you don't deny that it has occurred or not.
I agree but didn't we all along? you are a strange bird Bugs....strange indeed. I have been guilty of replying to a post but not really and instead targeting a prexisting theme of the site but I always admit it......my post had nothing to do with what you were trying to say and in fact we both agree that Gui made the team on his merits not his heritage but be manrabbit bugs and admit you made *** up here bud.
2nd p.) Don't deny French pressure exists; deny it affects Mr.Bob Gainey's decision like yours does. MY French pressure doesn't do that.
3rd p.) Perhaps. If that's how you choose to justify your mesmerism towards my words WITHOUT me bringing my A-game. You should therefore think about shielding your eyes when I do.
4th p.) Yet you still said that you didn't deny that Bob Gainey succombed to French pressure to accept Gui in the club. That's what you said. I think the implication is absolutely ridiculous. If my perception of that "implication" is wrong? Of course, I apologize. But that's what you said. Do what I do and let go of your pride, Krobbie. No one gets the last word on the Internet. Find zen.
And don't swear.
Je suis
Sieur Bugs Potter, écuyer. Major-général du dépôt de munitions Fort Gainey, contre-amiral du torpilleur de classe-II Sainte Flanelle, et sous-secrétaire du ministère de la Défense Tricolore.
Read this whole arguement and you're coming out as the total freak here, krob.
Go Habs Go!! "I can't hear what Jeremy (Roenick) is saying because my Stanley Cup rings are in my ears" - Patrick Roy
lol....if anyone else had posted that I might agree but you just pretty well assured me I'm on solid ground and I bet BUGS cringed when he saw you agreed with him lol. HR I have had these same moronic debates with you...semantics and nonsense but fun nonetheless. If you can honestly find in my original post where I implied Gui amde it because he was French or Gainey caved to the pressure I will personally endorse every ridiculous post you make on here from here to eternity.......it didn;t happen.....he made it up.....said the exact opposite of what I wrote and ran with it....great minds think alike and so do not so great minds apparently.
As I said, I read everything, and tended to follow what Bugs was saying more clearly than your defense, but as I've noticed in the past, you can never seem to admit you are wrong EITHER...I suppose we're all the same when it comes to that though.
I would hope Bugs appreciates some of my posts, but I can't help how he feels. I tell it like I see it.
You think of me the same as I think of you, but I'm not so sure that the majoroty of this site appreciates your posts any more than they appreciate mine. You do come off as very high & mighty though. Some posters probably respect that in a weird way.
Go Habs Go!! "I can't hear what Jeremy (Roenick) is saying because my Stanley Cup rings are in my ears" - Patrick Roy
So you think after reading my first post I was saying Gainey caved to french pressure and I thought that Gui made it because he was French? I have read it to three people in the office here and they are all mindboggled. The rest of it was just Bugs and I being to proud and maybe insanley stubborn internet losers....Can you honestly look at the first post Imade about GUi and get that Gui made it becasue he was French or that Gainey caved to French Pressure???
I don't care what anyone thinks of my posts....I post here because I enjoy it....I like talking about the Habs with other people who love the Habs way too much too, and there aren't too many people who really follow the Habs to do that with...so i do it here. I get more information on a day here than I woul din ayear without it. This is a fantastic resource for any Habs fan and there is a reason it grows like it does. We all disagree on everything hell the team can;t even decide what they agree on.......that is the fun thing but I atke exception when people try to imply things that were not implied when I was VERY CLEARLY not implying anything racist and was actually criticizing those who do.
A
Sorry I got involved. I guess all I noticed was that you said pretty much what you were arguing you didn't say....perhaps it's all about context.
Keep up the posts. I love reading about the Habs, whether I agree or not.
Go Habs Go!! "I can't hear what Jeremy (Roenick) is saying because my Stanley Cup rings are in my ears" - Patrick Roy
Je suis
Sieur Bugs Potter, écuyer. Major-général du dépôt de munitions Fort Gainey, contre-amiral du torpilleur de classe-II Sainte Flanelle, et sous-secrétaire du ministère de la Défense Tricolore.
I don't want this to become a gang up on krob. What I do know is that I used to really enjoy his posts, but recently he has become very defensive and seems to think he cannot be wrong.
I've been known to argue as well, but I try to defend my words with facts or stats.
I still think I've read more good posts from krob than bad ones though.
Go Habs Go!! "I can't hear what Jeremy (Roenick) is saying because my Stanley Cup rings are in my ears" - Patrick Roy
see that's where it gets weird because I admit I am wrong on here all the freaking time......I never thought Gorges would be a regular player...let alone a rock on our d....wrong! I never thought Lapierre would improve like he did last year...wrong! I never thought we would struggle last year like some said we would...wrong! I make my points as best as I can and I appreciate the same from others...I like being wrong...it is called learning and I love learning new things. There are some issues that I won't budge on like the Gomez deal, the fact we should have made a big deadline splash two seasons ago because we were close, the fact I don't think we should have totally cleaned house on the UFA's...these are my opinions and I am not saying anyone is less right than me but until they prove their side better than I feel I am proving mine I will continue to see things as I do. I have been swayed on several things and again I call that learning. I have no problem wiith you calling it like you see it but every time I get into one of these it is because soemone is putting words in mouth...I am very defensive about that...agreeed but I think anyone should be.
hmmmmmm kind of like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it? isn't that how this started...you deciding (and completely wrongly) what my motive was when all along we were actually saying the exact same thing?
Since then, it's all been pretty much about nursing your wounded pride.
Agree that it IS funny if we're all saying the same thing in the end. I shouldn't have therefore worded it the way you did if I'd been you though. You not denying Mr.Gainey was influenced by "French pressure", I mean.
Je suis
Sieur Bugs Potter, écuyer. Major-général du dépôt de munitions Fort Gainey, contre-amiral du torpilleur de classe-II Sainte Flanelle, et sous-secrétaire du ministère de la Défense Tricolore.
WRONG Bugs....i neversaid he was influenced ...I said I did not deny there was French Pressure....there was..there is...there always will be.....at NO point did I imply he was influenced by it....I said the opposite and my whole post stated that......that is where you are putting that very key word in mouth again. Read it again...slowly.....without prejudice and really try and figure out where you got that...cause I can't ...three of my colleagues can't........we are all mindboggled and they all keep saying everytime I shoe them these post "oh wow"....and not in a good way...maybe you are just a little sensitive to any term that you may construe or may have been used BY OTHERS to criticize the French..... but Bugs......my Grandfather is French.....my son goes to an immersion school, I went to one, my wife wwent one(still no good at speaking the language though)....you picked a fight with the wrong guy. Unfiortunately I am very stubborn when I feel I am right and I feel I am here....I canl;t be wrong because I know what I meant by what Iwrote yu the whole idea of two peope on here trying to tell me what I meant is really weird....especially when it is spelled out for yu as clear as day. Stiop inserting words and ideas of your own...read the words writtten and admit you wanted me to have meant or said what you thought I did...but I didn;t ...plain and simple...
WHERE DOES IT SAY GAINEY WAS INFLUENCED IN MY POST?
Pressure on who, Krobbie? Please. That's what you said. If there's a "from", there MUST BE a "to". FROM the French TO...? Obviously, Bob Gainey. Ergo: there was pressure FROM the French TOWARDS Bob Gainey for Gui to make the club. I think that's ridiculous.
Now, you're changing your story, mate. You're floundering and you're changing your story. Just say that sentence totally came out wrong and you misworded what you meant and all'll be cool. Why don't you do that?
Je suis
Sieur Bugs Potter, écuyer. Major-général du dépôt de munitions Fort Gainey, contre-amiral du torpilleur de classe-II Sainte Flanelle, et sous-secrétaire du ministère de la Défense Tricolore.
Now we are getting closer...yes, I do agree there was pressure on Bob from the French...that much I said and that much I will concede...that's why I wrote it..do you not agree? The gap in our differences here is because you seem to think I implied he was influenced by it or that Gui made the team because of it. Now read the rest of the post and try and get that out of it. I only put that in there because I figured someone respond with something along the lines of "so you are denying there was pressrue from the Frenchmedia,etc"....I thought by acknowledging that fact...and it is a fact that there was pressure......(again Bugs not saying Bob was influenced as I stated repeatedly that Gui's play earned himt hat spot)......geez.....we were just saying here after reading Paul's post that maybe we finally had this cleared up with the context thing but you still insist on adding ideas and reading words that aren;t there instead ofthe words that are.
agree 100%. Also, that first year, I don't recall the details but hte only choices were Juniors or NHL. Think it had something to do with an age restriction or something like that.
Franklin the Beagle, 7/1/2002-7/13/2009
Lats was in the same position Nazem Kadri is for Toronto...either make the NHL team, or go back to Junior (the Q for Lats, the O for Kadri)...the AHL was not a possibility for either of them that 1st year.
Another non-value-judgement observation: Halak and Price both have seven starts, but Price has faced 39 more shots -- a whole bad game's worth (or two very good ones).
The more telling statistic would be goal support by their teammates...
Price : Team has scored 14 goals in 7 games, i.e. 2.00 GPG
Halak : Team has scored 24 goals in 7 games, i.e. 3.43 GPG
I still don't buy into this whole "Oh, the team plays better in front of Halak" thing though. There is no logical explanation for it. Price has better rebound control and puckhandling skills, which should help the defense out a lot... I just can't see why the team would trust Halak more than Price (unless there are locker room issues). So for now the actuary in me will continue to believe that it's the product of random occurrences. I'll wait 20 games (each!) to pass judgment... :)
yep.. too soon to tell. Too few games have been played. Let's see in February.
I calculated that on average, Price has faced 31.1 shots per 60 minutes of ice-time.
Halak has faced 26.7 shots per 60 minutes of ice-time.
Anyone else wondering if the number of injuries to key players this year has anything to do with the Olympics. First off the schedule is more compressed but more importantly I can;t help but wonder if guys are sitting out injuries they may normally play through to ensure they are as helathy as possilbe if they get the call for their country. This is total fabrication on my part and I have no basis for this at all but I was just looking at my hockey pools and I can't ever remember seeing anything like this......then I read an article about Yzerman making his list and I thought the two may somehow be correlated......or not.
I really think NHLers should't be playing at the olympics. I might be the only one but the whole idea of multi million dollar cry babies showcasing themselves just doesn't sit well with the whole spirit of what Olympics is supposed to be.
I think having juniors participate would make the games hell lot more exciting. These guys still play their hearts out and leave it all on the ice. I have to say that I look forward world junior a lot more than the olympics.
not sure I disagree either......I would prefer just a World Cup format or something every 4 years ...unfortunately the Olympics are more respected as the World Cup was dodged by many quality players.......there ahs to be some stage for the best to play the best......maybe the Olympics isn;t the place ...maybe semantics could solve it? have the Olympics and then as a bracnh of the Plympics have the professional olympics for all of the sports that are similar in their "non Olympicality"
"The PrOlympics"......Hockey, Golf, Baseball, Football, Basketball, Soccer, Tennis, Boxing, etc.........let the amateurs have their glory but also have the best play the best and have them mean something and still be the Olympics? Just a thought.
Agreed.
secret mod
As long as other countries send their best we have to send our best.
That being said, I would not be totally against just not allowing ANY "professionals" at the Olympics....although the hockey has been pretty excellent there if you ask me.
I also love the Worl Juniors.
Go Habs Go!! "I can't hear what Jeremy (Roenick) is saying because my Stanley Cup rings are in my ears" - Patrick Roy
If it were end of November I would say yes. But the Month hasn't been that bad in terms of scehuling. On top of that the players should not be tired at this part of the year. Now, a lot of the injuries were viscious hits. Very few of them is because of a pull or something.. PLayers have needed surgery, and concussions don't take a week to heal...
Unclear what you mean, are you saying cuncussions take longer or shorter to heal? I am assuming you are saying that they take longer than a week.
Franklin the Beagle, 7/1/2002-7/13/2009
yes... Sorry of I wasn't clear.. But my point that a lot of the injuries were hits that resulted in concussions and take longer than a week to heal. They can take up to a month for a guy to be fully recover and that is being optimistic.
Still waiting for Andrei to get over his concussion from last year.
"A month before the season I stop putting ketchup on my french fries." -Mario Lemieux on his off-season training.
Just a no-value-judgement observation here, but if the brothers were indeed sent south for Horton, we'd have exactly one big-league forward from outside of North America (Pleks), and just one more in the AHL (Johansson). That has got to be a league low. Including the D, we'd have just six Europeans on both teams put together, and just two with the Dogs.
Just reading about the Isles beating the Oils. Tavares has 5 goals so far this year... not bad! Roloson though has won 4 of 5 games and is another reason they're winning.
Funny quote from Pat Quinn:
"We sure shoot ourselves in the foot," Oilers coach Pat Quinn said. "We are a team that beats themselves right now.
Sounds like something I heard him say a couple of years ago, and before that, and before that.... LOL
--------------------------------------------------- `Could this team miss the playoffs? Who knows?' - Bob Gainey on the new Habs.
Anyone else going to the Bulldogs vs baby sens game this Sunday in Ottawa? I'll try to give a decent resume of the game and some comments on how certain players did.
Go Habs Go!! "I can't hear what Jeremy (Roenick) is saying because my Stanley Cup rings are in my ears" - Patrick Roy
I'm going. Just trying to see if my kids/wife/friends want to go as well before I get the tickets
Once a Habs fan, always a Habs fan
Thanks!
This season has been absolutely unreal for both the quantity and quality of players injured. And the scary thing is that the compressed schedule is really only just kicking in. With the Olympics coming, we know from 2002 and 2006 that a lot of those guys seemed to get run down and suffer injuries post-Olympics, so the NHL must be sweating nervously.
Check out some of the guys that are missing right now:
Giguere, Lehtonen, Kovalchuk, Lucic, Savard, E. Staal, Hossa, Toews, Modano, Lehtinen, Franzen, Filppula, Souray , Booth , Johnsson, Markov, Arnott, Elias, P. Martin, DiPietro, T. Hunter, Volchenkov, Gagne, Briere, Talbot, Gonchar, Malkin, Pavelski, Steen, Oshie, Kessel, Demitra, D. Sedin, Wellwood, Luongo, Ovechkin
That is a pretty stunning injury list. And then you throw in that 11 players are currently on the injured list with concussions or post-concussion symptoms. Scary stuff.
Yeah, my hockey pool's been really thrown to shite.
Same here... half of my roster is on effing injury reserve.
That was a good read about Subban. What a mature 20 year old. He even took a french course because he knows how much it means. I would love to see him play a game or two . I dont think he would look out of place
bring on the hot carl!
w00t!^!!
Move MAB to the wiiiiiing! Better offensively than most of the pretenders that have flanked Pleks this season.
"A month before the season I stop putting ketchup on my french fries." -Mario Lemieux on his off-season training.
Not another D playing forward experiment please. How about he doesn't play. At all. I like that idea a lot better. I mean since he scored 2 goals in 2 first games he has done absolutely nothing else but cough puck away time after time. Forwards are still responsible for defensive zone coverage, so there is still room for MAB to mess it up.
If he continues to play once others return, that's where he belongs, in my opinion.
hmm.... interesting idea.. At least he has more shooting skill than Lats.