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Carbo at 50: Looking ahead, still no answers
posted by Dave Stubbs at 19h55 EST on Mar 17
Today, Carbonneau is impressed by what he sees of his former team, for whom he played for a dozen years, served as captain and coached 230 games with a regular-season record of 124-83-23. He is busier than ever as a husband, father and grandfather of three who is moving painlessly on two new surgically replaced hips, serving as a Hockey Night in Canada analyst, starring in a TVA hockey reality show and soon heading to Belarus as head coach of Canada's under-18 world championship team.
Good things in the present and the future. But Carbonneau still hasn't gotten closure over his firing. He says his relationship has changed with Gainey, his former teammate and mentor in Dallas and Montreal who handpicked him to coach the Habs.
At the very least, the timing of the firing was puzzling: when Gainey pulled Carbonneau's plug, alone or with pressure from above, the Canadiens were in fifth place in the Eastern Conference, having turned the corner from a horrible 1-11-3 skid in January/February, and Carbonneau, a finalist as NHL coach of the year the previous June, was only five months into a new three-year contract.
I sat Saturday at the Bell Centre with Carbonneau, who spoke at length about all of the above. There is no bitterness in him; he's moved on and is loving his life. But he won't lie to you – he was angry to be fired, and he still wouldn't mind knowing the whole background behind his dismissal.
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On this quiet Habs news day, Habs Addict has a few random musings about Bergeron, Cammalleri and the Brent Seabrook hit.
Read more:
http://www.habsaddict.com/2010/03/random-thoughts-marc-andre-bergeron.html
Nice article on Carbo. I wish some of the younger people on this site had the opportunity to see Carbo play as a rookie and later as a linemate to Bob Gainey. He was one of the greatest two way players to ever play the game. In the 1986 and 1993 Cup winning years, like Patrick Roy, Carbo was in the zone where he played to perfection. I will always have a soft spot in my heart for Carbo.
I always liked Carbo; as a player and as a coach. But i think he got caught bewteen some difficult dressing room dynamics that he really had not control over and some interference from BG. If we look at how JM has been able to make his own decsion about the goalies but we know that BG pressured Carbo to play Price. in the end, he didn't do the kid any favors. he laso rushed other pkayers up from Hamilton and Carbo had to play the hands he was given. Not any easy situation. But remember how the team really soared under him the prevsious year. Yes the players played well, but he also pulled all the right strings and got the best out of guys like Kovy and AK. I hope that Carbo lands on his feet with another coachiong job and i would even bring him back to the habs- just like Billy Martin and the Yanks.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - it would be very interesting to see how Carbo would have fared as head coach of THESE Montreal Canadiens (post-July 1, 2009) rather than the heartless bunch he had for 3 years... hmmm.
Koivu heartless? Tom the bomb? Nope, not right to call them heartless.
But, something was clearly wrong in the dressing room. And of course we know now it wasn't Carbo, seeing as the team faired even worse under Gainey.
and we know it wasnt Kovy since Bob made him an offer and not Saku hmmm.....
...
To insinuate that Koivu wasn't in for this team 100% is pure crap and you should give your head a shake.
He's gone through so much BS for this team and was willing to lay it all on the line until the end of his career.
oh and crabvader even if Kovy did something horrible i would still look at him with rose colored glasses if there ever was such thing as a fanboy ..well im a Kovy fanboy always have been always will be
maybe he did and that was the issue he was sick of it. sick of the coach, sick of the fans, sick of his teammates, sick of the city, sick of the organization we will never know.
but something ...something was up if it wasnt Carbo, Kovy, Saku i wish i was a fly on the wall sometimes and was there in the room both during the Carbo fireing and dressing room during the skid and after Carbo was let go -- one day someone is going to write a book about this situation and what happened or its going to be in someones book maybe a chapter somewhere down the line i cant wait to read it.
Same old subject, hits to the head until someone is dead!
Seabrook gives a high hit to Perry.
And then Wisniewaki charges into the corner all the way from the blueline. No one died tonight but it is coming. No respect. As a matter of fact, throughout society today, respect is a lost art.
Video: Down goes Seabrook, out goes Wisniewski?Ian I agree with the respect being a lost art now..
Unbeliveable... It's like they heard the rule might be coming in so they figure they have to get it all out while they can.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. http://habsandhockey.blogspot.com/
these headshots are coming fast and furious lately - it's like everybody is trying to get them out of their systems before the rule changes
Agreed. On all counts.
here ya go buddy http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=314522
Lol, I only agree with McKenzie on issues such as young talent. I don't consider his opinion to be the word of God.
Campbell... Seabrook... if I'm Duncan Keith, I'm real nervous next game.
dont forget sopel o.o
Wisniewaki left his feet as well and dropped a forarm to the head.... that should get a suspension, i would say 20 games. he retaliated for the perry hit and cleary took a run at a player.
Now should seabrook be suspended for his hit? it's a grey area hit and once again more of a push but luckily perry just bounced right back up.
perry was knocked on his bum, seabrook was knocked into his childhood
If Wisnewski left his feet, it was barely one foot. He barely left the ice if at all. Seabrook's hit was much more dangerous.
Wisnewski was charging but Seabrook HAS to keep his head up. There's no excuse for having your head down when the guy hits you head-on.
Seabrook's hit on Perry was boarding and could've had much more dire consequences.
i watched the replay again and he left his feet
Hits like that are thrown every day in hockey with guys getting lept with momentum. You wanna talk leaving your feet? Go look at Gauthier's hit on Gorges again. That's leaving your feet. This is a momentum from charging hit.
Charging is a dirty play in itself so I don't see why a really small (1 inch or less) leap is even relevant.
agreed but even the small jump shows clear intent to injure
Could say the same for Seabrook's hit on Perry, really. Wisnewski was sticking up for his teammate... This is usually an admirable trait to us Habs fans... Guess not anymore. Still, his hit on Seabrook was reckless and should've been punished by a 5 minute. If you suspend him, though, you have to suspend Seabrook. His hit was just as reckless and Wisnewski's.
i agree with ya all the way.
what would you consider Seabrook's hit on Perry though?
Between 2 to 4 games. He really didn't consider how badly Perry could've been injured with that hit.
Boarding all the way.
Any contact to the head for any reason should be suspend able. Same as contact to the head with a stick no matter what, is a penalty. You have to make players responsible for their actions. End of story. No grey area.
I didn't say Wisnewski should get out of it clean. I said it should've been a double-minor or more likely a major for charging.
Perry almost got his face smashed into the boards like an omelette. With the instigator, you can't even do anything about it. Seabrook's hit was MUCH more dangerous. It was that famous push right into the boards.
Perry is VERY lucky he got out of it clean. With all the calamity these past weeks with those types of hits. I'd be frustrated as hell too if I were Wisnewski.
You see Laps pull it on Nichol, you see Ovy pull it on Campbell, and now you see Seabrook do it (in a different manner) to Perry. Wisnewski saw it and probably got pissed. I would've been irate, too.
Any one of you would too, as a matter of fact.
If one of our guys got smoked the way Perry did, everyone would be yelling themselves hoarse for someone to kill Seabrook.
Talk about grey areas!
I understand where you are coming from, Mr. Cobb, I just have a different opinion on this particular situation.
It is like being a little bit pregnant; either you are or you are not. NO GREY AREA. People MUST be accountable for damaging another person in this manner. Any purposeful hit to the head is an offense. Cut and dried.
Exactly right Fred. And the Refs are as guilty as anyone for leaving it up to the players to police contact to the head of any kind.
ummm... give me a break...
Lol, go watch ringuette or something.
wow... you're hilarious. perry gets rubbed out on the boards? and you call it dangerous? you go watch ringette
that charge was brutal, dirty and headhunting. perry turned his back on seabrook deliberately. its not the 1st time hes done it and it wont be the last. perry is always turning his back while at the boards. he got knocked on his bum, seabrook didnt deserve the cheapshot and im pretty sure you're an emilio estevez fan.
and to back me up before you reply with more smartassery:
TSNBobMcKenzie Seabrook hit on Perry wasn't great, borderline or questionable at best, but response was, IMO, over the top.
TSNBobMcKenzie We all have ideas on discipline and how many games. Wiz hit, for me, would be an in person hearing, five or more games.
Look, go grovel to your guru Mckenzie, because he sure isn't mine.
Seabrook shoved Perry into the boards and it was exactly the same type of hit Laps put on Nichol or Ovy put on Campbell. If Perry turns just 20 degrees, his head goes first into the boards.
I'm glad you think I'm funny because clearly, you have the better jokes.
what is difficult to understand? carbo was not ready to be a head coach, we won in spite of him. he lost his team, alienated players, overplayed others and was in the midst of a brutal losing streak when he got canned. someone should explain to him that coaches are hired to be fired. we are WAY better off with him nowhere near this team.
For all the members who have kids that play minor hockey, please read this article.
Bauer has recalled over 100,000 Junior and Youth hockey sticks. If you have one and return it, they will send you a new elite stick. It is for almost all of their models, and there is a number you can call to verify if your stick qualifies.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20100318/bauer_recall_100318/20100318?hub=Canada
"Dangerous levels of lead"... hmmm. Kids, don't lick your sticks.
i wonder what "dangerous levels of lead" really equals or means.
Lead is a slow killer, just ask the water birds that picked up a lead pellet during hunting season and died 6 months later. That is why they don't sell lead shot anymore. It is picked up and carried in our waters killing people over time my friend.
I doubt it is that dangerous, since it says that there hasn't been a single report of illness yet.
It means that Bauer is going to be giving away a lot of free $280 hockey sticks!
Lead is a slow poison. It can permeate the skin. It is not necessary to "lick the stick". If they say their own product is dangerous and are spending the money to do a recall, you should believe that they think their product is dangerous. Why in hell should you "doubt" that?
I dunno. Carbo didn't know what was wrong last year, and he still seems mystified about everything. I do agree that the timing was odd; it should have happened sooner. If he really wants to coach again, he needs to do like the players: go to the A for awhile and learn his craft. I sound negative, but I really do wish him well.
For all the Carbo talk good or bad ,after a good year the young player life style kill the team because the vets did not keep them grounded look at chicago limos.. pics.. off kane or phillys youngs core players living down town and bar hopping , it is the vets jobs to help to keep them focus and out of trouble and bad press
... Bulldogs storm back to beat Phantom 6-5 in a shootout / Hamilton Spectator .................. http://www.thespec.com/Wire/Sports_Wire/NHL_Hockey_Wire/article/739299
Absolutely amazing! When I checked, they were losing 4-1 in the 2nd.
I check again this morning and I see 6-5 in a shootout! Crazy!
What a team! PK with another 2 goals. Wow. That's more than he had last year with Belleville.
Also, Palushaj with a goal and assist, nice!
... Wisniewski's Head Hit on Seabrook ... (Duck's color analyst thought Seabrook was selling it ? ? ? ) ......... http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/hockey/comments/wisniewski_hit_on_seabrook_tonight/
I don't like the first paragraph of this analysis calling Wisnewski's hit out for more than what it was. When I saw it, I automatically said: "Charging".
Now, I believe charging penalties should be more severe than two minutes but come the F on...
Wisnewski stood up for his team mate Perry who actually was on the receiving end of a much more questionnable hit.
I would never take Perry's side after that crap he pulled on Markov and especially since Chicago is my home away from home and has always been my Western team... but I'm starting to get sick of every single hit being dissected now.
Headshots deserve the suspension... but this was a smaller Wisnewski coming in for a retalitory play on Seabrook for almost ending Perry's season.
It's hockey. One of your stars gets crushed, you never like to see it happen. Wisnewski hit him in a head-on collision... apply directly to the fore... ugh.
A charging penalty was all I say. Sure, his hands were up high but so many hits that are actually legal often have the hands up high. This, in my opinion is a simple frustration play and wasn't as vicious as this blogger has made it out to be.
A few thoughts:
1- don't you hate it when fellow Olympians fight?
2- bad blood on Wiz' end for Seabrook emerging as a top-level D-man in Chi-town which paved the way for him to be moved elsewhere?
3- aren't you thankful it wasn't a Bruins player who hit Seabrook, which would have no doubt set off the embarassment to broadcasting otherwise known as Jack Edwards?
I wonder if the commentator still thought that when Seabrook left the game with a concussion? He also said Seabrook delivered a head shot to Correy Perry right before that. He hit Perry in the shoulder, which caused him to turn and hit his heard on the boards.
I hate Wisniewski's hit, because it's totally not necessary. He could have just stayed low and delivered a solid body check to the chest, instead he rises up, leaves his feet, and his forearm goes right into Seabrook's face. Definite suspension imo.
In a year or two, there will be no more hockey because everything will be a suspension.
Headshots are unnacceptable and should be automatically suspendable... but come on... every hit is turning into this huge ordeal.
The concequence was worse than the actual hit. He got him face-to-face with that hit. Seabrook had his head down and Wisnewski was charging. It was a reckless play and if anything merited a double-minor or a major in my books.
Until the instigator is removed, it is useless to suspend guys for every single hit.
A comment on future defence:
For next year, assuming Hammer wont be back (though it will be hard to unload his contract), I think we could see Spacek moved back to his natural side of the ice and paired with Markov. Hear me out. People hate him for some reason because they expected more production. He'll be at that level with Markov, who he was expected to play with this year, and he will be on his natural side. Also, his plus minus is great, so he's a conservative complement to Markov if necessary.
This wont take away from OB, since I can see him paired with Gill on the 3rd string as a dynamic shut down duo. Martin uses all his D almost equally, so OB will be getting almost 20 min anyways.
Also, this leaves us with a very good second pair in PK and Georges. Georges being able to steady the back end behind PKs rushing style (and chipping in a bit offensively too).
This looks just fine to me. I actually think it looks excellent if they all stay healthy and the pairs stay together and get used to each other through a full year. Webber would be playing as the 7th D. He hasn't been too impressive but still has the potential to have a rocket of a right-handed shot. He might need one more year in Hamilton and I think PK being gone gives him a chance to run the show and learn how to quarterback a powerplay even more (with some stints with the big club to showcase what he's learned).
Markov-Spacek
Georges-Subban
Gill-O'Byrne
No offense,but not one thing you posted makes sense. Markov is not moving to the right side to accomodate Spacek. O'b and Gill together is totally ridiculous,this isn't the NBA. P.K can't be paired up with Gorges,as Gorges gets knocked off the puck too easy and would put too much pressure on P.K. And Hamr is our 2nd best D-man,who held the fort when Markov was injured,and is the player they would put P.K with
Spacek would still be on his wrong side if paired with Markov, because there's no way Markov is moving to the right side. It'll probably look more like:
Markov - O'Byrne
Spacek - Subban
Gill - Gorges
Weber
Finding out what REALLY happened to Carbo - it's like waiting for the JFK files to come out...Mario Tremblay behind the grassy knoll...
Heres a funny video I happened to find...
Enjoy!
Strong language though...If your offended by Samuel L Jackson...I suggest ya dont click the link...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek9m9n8uiw0
"I went to see a fight the other night...And A hockey game broke out!" ~Rodney Dangerfield~
Do they speak English in "what"?!?
...Guy and Bob were the 2 greatest defensive forwards I have seen, whether as a Hab or otherwise ...there were at least 2 Cups We would not possess now if it were not for Guy Carbonneau
...yet, it was a nightmare season last year, and I still find it difficult to decide if Guy was part of the problem, or it's victim of a very toxic Player malaise
...IMO, I believe it was a bit of both
Habitant means PASSIONATE HOCKEY
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=423049
Last year our injuries were as bad as this year,(Lang,Tanguay,Saku,Price,Komi,Higgs,Markov late) there were off-ice dramatics(Kovy,Kostis,Price etc.) and we still had more pts than this year at the same time.Carbo was far from the problem,it's a situation that got out of hand,and I would blame Gainey more,if there was someone to blame.
Good post Chris, I tend to agree that it was a bit of both.
Renaud Lavoie just posted this video on RDS as a response to those who think the Benoit Brunet favors the Habs in his commentary. The man in the video is HILARIOUS! I spit my coffee. Worth the click!
"I gotta a feeling...that tonight's gonna be a good night!"
Feh. Mais c'est rien du tout, ça.
Dubiously unequivocal, know me as
L.B. Potter, esq. First Bugler of the St-Habberson's Club Red Brigade and Head Coachman to the President of Habsbros Flannel-weaving Services: http://habsbros.blogspot.com/
Haha I bet that guys came like 5 times. And that was probably just on the first goal.
LMAO!
Goalies in Montreal have two roles, netminder and scapegoat.
on tsn quiz show today they asked which of the the players would you take for the rest of your career. a) gui b) mueller c) benny all of them voted for gui. and i hate to say it but i may have to agree, but i hope benny can prove me and tsn wrong,, good for gui but imagine how it would be if gui becomes a leclaire and benny ends up a one hit wonder
.::moen & georges for co-captains::.
Consider the SOURCE!
Its TSN, half the votes were no doubt cast by LAFF trolls!
"The three stars as selected by Red Fisher of the Montreal Star: 1st star: Henri Richard 2nd Star: Doug Harvey 3rd Star: Jacques Plante Final score Detroit Red Wings 5 Montreal Canadiens 3"
it's a win/win trade so far.Leave it at that.Who the hell cares what TSN thinks
i have to say the quiz is stupid (it's more of a survey!! since there's no right answer) but pierre mcguire used to rag on guillaume latendresse and how bad of a player he was, and now he turns tail and says he's a good player once he's no longer a montreal canadien.
- Team Halak V.S. Team Price...Montreal Canadiens Fans are similar to 14 year-old Girls going through Puberty.
EVERYONE here wanted Gui gone, thay all got their wish, now the same thing is happening to Carey. Be careful what you wish for!!!!
IMO,Price could be a star in this league,but it definately won't/can't happen in Montreal.He was mis-managed and over-touted as much as any player I've ever seen.
Guy exploded in Minny, no doubt, but we got a very good player in our own right. No matter how good gui is doing, The habs are bettre off because they improved. Nobody can say Price would flourish elsewhere more than he has here. Pure speculation.
or it could be other way around
It's TSN, to hell with them. Gui will come back down after he secures his new contract and will do the Ryder thing likely, or just fall apart the next time Havlat is injured, whichever comes first. Pouliot has speed, hands and size, he's got better ability than Gui in every category. Pouliot's stats are excellent considering his limited time in the NHL as well. He misses scoring chances in a couple of games and suddenly everyone questions him? It's not like he can score each and every game.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. http://habsandhockey.blogspot.com/
I find it funny that the same guys who are lauding Latendresse are the guys who were saying he was trash 20 games into the season, and would be a career AHLer. McGuire especially. Watching Pouliot play every game, we win that trade on skating ability and defensive responsibility alone. Think you'll ever see Latendresse killing a penalty? No way.
I couldn't agree with you more AB. Honestly, the whole "TSN quiz" thing is such a joke! TSN, as we all know, is so biased to the Leafs, so why WOULDN'T they say Guillaume over Benoit? It's just a given and was a waste of air time, lol.
........... "Thank you Cammy for making my day even more amazing!" I STILL BELIEVE. I WILL ALWAYS BELIEVE.
We won the trade because Gui didn't do anything here. Minny won the trade, from their perspective, for the same reason. Pouliot was an AHL player with MInny. Now they have a guy who is on pace for 40+. I'm sure both sides are very happy.
i really hope so dude cuz all the bloody trade MTL makes except the one for rivet(props gainey, couldve been dbl probs if he wouldve landed perron instead of 67) does not go our ways. and i agree with the first guy replied my post i hope people would shut up about price or else hes gonna get traded and will eventuallly burn this league
.::moen & georges for co-captains::.
We've won several trades under the Gainey regime, the Kovalev trade was also a massive win.
I really wish Mitch Melnyk on Team 990 would record Pierre saying something about a player and then play it back to him six months later when he completely reverses his position. Would be nice to see him called out as a two-faced twit for once.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. http://habsandhockey.blogspot.com/
Could be done easily with a bit of research, especially with PVR technology these days. I'd like to see it thrown in McGuire's face that he said Beauchemin, Komisarek and Kaberle were as good as Robinson, Savard and Lapointe.
I was just about to say what Andrew posted. Jesus H. Christ, I still remember McGuire saying that.
Do they take ever questions when he goes on the radio? I'll bring that up one of these days.
Really can't stand McGuire! He was the same spineless jellyfish that ripped Gainey for not getting O. Jokinen at last season's trade deadline. What does he think NOW! I wish the Habs had a Ewen/Nilan type that would crush Latendresse the next time the Habs face Minny. Latendresse could never make it here and he did not LOVE this organization! He was too busy worrying about himself and I am sad to say that Lapierre is next!!!!!!!!!!
Technically it was Schenn, Komi, Beauchemain and Kaberle, the "Big Four" he called them, comparing them to the Big Three, which is insane as they were one of the best defensive units in NHL history, if not the best.
Not a single one of them is fit to tie Robinson's skates. I always think of him as the Canadiens most complete defencemen ever for all of the elements he brought as a player. Savard was the first defencemen to winn Conn Smythe and Guy Lapointe was a scoring dynamo from the back end. You could combine the skills of three of those Leafs and you couldn't equal what one of those guys brought to a game.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. http://habsandhockey.blogspot.com/
I don't think there's ever been a top 3 as good as those 3 in the NHL. Robinson to me is right there with Orr, Bourque and Lidstrom as one of the best defensemen of all time, so you could take every defenseman Toronto has signed and combine them and still never tie Robinson's skates.
Doug Harvey belongs on that "best" list.
You're completely right, I'm ashamed I didn't include him. Can't believe I didn't put his name on there!
The debate is always about the goaltending in Montreal, but so many forget the Canadiens always had a great defence for their years as a dynasty team. Subban and Markov would give us one of the most skilled Top-4 units we've seen in well over a decade. O'Byrne enjoying the Markov factor helps a lot for his development as well, you can see it in the way he plays lately.
- I shall always remember Captain Koivu. http://habsandhockey.blogspot.com/
Finally....some sense!
Carbo did what he believe and stood by it just got to respect that , as well he did say Price be better off in the ahl.