Log in & Sign up
You are not logged in.
How Sundin messed up a whole lot of teams
posted by Dave Stubbs at 19h08 EST on Jul 3
Tags:
Boone's Online Eeee-mail
Share the agony and ecstasy of Habs fandom and read live blogs from every game with Gazette columnist Mike Boone.
Fan Summit Info
The Puckcast
Weekly commentary and inside info about the Canadiens straight from the Gazette's experts.
Get the Flash Player to see this player.
The Rules
Habs Inside/Out encourages lively debate, but there is a zero-tolerance policy regarding racism, profanity and behaviour that we deem to be offensive. We will, without warning, ban those who do not abide by this simple rule, so as to maximize the enjoyment of readers and participants of both sexes and all ages.
Most Commented
Most commented posts from the last 7 days:
Habs Inside/Out main RSS feed
Mike Boone's RSS feed
PuckCast RSS feed
Site concept and design by User Generation
Resources
Player info:
League info:
Habs Inside/Out: Absolutely everything about the Montreal Canadiens
For editorial inquiries, contact Gazette sports editor Stu Cowan (scowan@thegazette.canwest.com).
For advertising inquiries, please contact your Gazette sales representative (gazadv@thegazette.canwest.com).
©2008 The Gazette, a division of Canwest Publishing Inc. All rights reserved. Unauthorized distribution, transmission or republication strictly prohibited.
Umm, okay, this is a crazy thought: maybe Sundin needs more time to make the decision BECAUSE of all the offers on the table. Out there, I know.
-----
Their defenses are broken! Let the slaughter begin!
Habs have got room for Sundin
http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/255000.html
Times like this I'm glad my parents put me in French immersion
Does anyone think we could trade Denis to toronto if we told them he was Danis? Fletcher can't tell the difference between Sauer and Finger, how the hell could he possibly tell the difference between Danis and Denis?
I am not sure I even want to know how much the contract is, two way or not.
Initial shock and snark aside, I suppose he could help with the kids at training camp and provide a steady hand for the dogs.
CM - Fletcher thought he signed Rollie Fingers - he was really impressed that Rollie had already won a Cy Young Award, not to mention the Lanny MacDonald moustache.
The Original 24 Cups
Let him go to Vancouver
Why? Do you not want the Habs to get the player that fits them best?
What's the rush to sign him anyways?
Leafs best line -"Grabs and Pohl's my Finger!
Sundin has been his own man for many years, he also is the best card player in the NHL. The real problem concerning Sundin is that people only hear what they want to hear, not what Sundin is actually telling them.
Maybe Sundin won't start the NHL season but rather join it in progress at some point throughout the year. Depending on the timeline, his arrival could open up his selection of teams as many more would have the lower cap space that he would/could sign for part way through the campaign. On the other hand, if he wants to play a full year then he has to be careful because the only teams that will be able to handle his contract will be the ones that are in the bottom half of the league. His Cup chances will diminish significantly.
I hope that Gainey leaves a substantial amount of cap space available so we can be in the running for Sundin, regardless of the time of year it is. Besides, who says you have to spend right up to the cap at this time of year? July isn't the only time to be a player in the market.
The Original 24 Cups
We have alot of talent and money left over and I feel we still have a great shot at Sundin. He already stated that he likes Montreal and its atmosphere. Bob is patient and knows Sundin will not retire yet , he still has a couple of good years in him and we are definitely a contender if he joins the Habs. The canucks can't offer him a contender and how much money does he really need. He would be a hero if he came to play for the Habs and led them to the cup. Even Hossa took less money to play with Detroit , noone repeats as champions these days , but he thinks so .
I don't see a problem with Kelly's argurment. He never said that Mats shouldn't wait. His arguement is that he felt Mats should have made his public statement that "BEFORE" july 2nd.
He's just expressing his opinion. And predictably the Leaf fans on the Rogers website lost their minds & started the vitriolic comments. (I bet these are the same fans that were harangueing Mats last Feb for not allowing himself to be shipped out for "the good of the team" )
Seems alot of comments from Habs fans here seem to be a little heated as well.....
... go figure...
What obligation does Mats have to any team in the league (and i don't just mean he's a ufa-- i mean what sort of ethical obligation has he shirked to make kelly so mad)?
I think I've proved that Kelly's argument can't seriously expect to hold water if it's based on insinuations that Sundin was trying to get an upper hand in contract negotiations (i.e. $$$) and without that smear what's left?
Superstar players have a moral obligation to make the off-season easier for owners and managment? Seems like a bit of a stretch to make the argument that players (who are bought and sold like commodities by the same fellows now crying foul)have some sort of obligation to the suits (besides honouring their contracts and plyaing their hearts out of course).
the problem with YOUR arguement is that you misquote Kelley, and then base your arguement on this misquote. Nowhere does Mr. Kelly say that Mats has an obligation (ethical or not). If fact, he never even uses the word "obligation" in the entire article. Nor does he imply it.
He simply did not like the fact that Mats waited until after July 1st to release a statement that maybe should have been released before then.
I'm sure that he would not have cared if it were someone else, but Mats is seen as an Elder statesman in the NHL... and people may have expected him to be especially considerate - whether warranted or not.
you may want to re-read the article, as I think you have misread major parts of the content, and perhaps misunderstood the overall tone of Mr. Kelley's article.
It's possible I misread the article; it's possible I misunderstood the tone.
I do not however think that to be the case.
What I tried to do was analyse the premises that Kelly was working from in order to arrive at the decision that one could be angry/mad/upset at Sundin's behaviour. Ideas about "giving back" or "elder statesman" rely on concepts of obligation: obligation necessarily has a moral/ethical dimension.
I'm sorry if my earlier posts didn't make this clear.
The problem with Kelly's argument is that it willingly ignores a very cogent fact.
To wit:
Apparently most (reputable?)sources had the Canucks offering Sundin 20 million over two years.
Given Mats age (and the fact that he seems to have trouble deciding if he even wants to play in the coming year) does anyone here believe that Mats could get a better deal (financially) than that?
If the answer is no, then Kelly's insinuation that Mats was delaying his anouncement about taking his time in making his decision in order to hold the upper hand seems ridiculous. What was there possibly to gain (financially)?
Of course, the argument could be made that Mats was delaying his anouncement in order to see what teams would do in the interim and then armed with the knowledge of which team looked superior on paper he could then sign with a very credible cup contender. That this is a risky bet for Mats at best doesn't detract from the possibility I suppose.
But (and it (like kelly) is one big but) if this last conspiracy theory is correct it doesn't generate a lot of buzz does it? The Headline: "Superstar screws over league by taking his time in deciding to join a really good team" doesn't quite have the same pizzazz, but it (like Kelly's actual article) does lack the same sense of logic and proportion.
It's not about the money, Its all about going out in style, and if Bob gave him the right sales pitch he will know were to be for his great finally.
What a stupid article. Sundin doesn't owe anything to anybody and he certainly didn't screw anyone. If every team, fan and media member JUST LISTENED to him when he kept repeating day in and day out that he wasn't ready to make a decision any time soon, then there wouldn't be any talk of this alleged "screwjob".
Did he tell other teams to wait for him? No. Did he say he'll make his decision soon? No. This proverbial wrench that was supposedly thrown between the gears of the free agency market was the owners decision and theirs alone.
Sundin waited cuz he wasn't ready and he still isn't. Teams were allowed to talk to him on July 1 and he gave a press quote on July 2 basically telling people to move on if you have to cuz he's not ready. People that's one freegin day! One sleep. Perhaps a couple of trips to the bathroom. But the point is it was prompt, specially after he heard about the insane offer Vancouver made. Why isn't this writer blaming Hossa for putting a strangle hold on the marker when the latter made his decision a day later as well?
He owes nothing to no one but himself. Amazing what journalists will write about when there's nothing else going on. Everybody was waiting for an answer? His answer was LOUD AND CLEAR.
HE ISN'T READY!
Now take it and deal with it. Do whatever you want with it but don't play the blame game if you don't want to listen.
He said at the end of the season he was going to take his time and asses his future, that is exactly what he is doing.
End of story mooks.
done and done. you are right. besides we have georges! yay, you know he can skate and hit. koivu is going to have sh**loads of room!
Word. Apparently that translated to "Wait for me, I might sign with your team whoever you are"
Well said. I can't stop agreeing with you Ian.
~Listen to the smart dog!
Sundin will retire, play for Toronto or an outside chance that Bob when in Sweden told Mats about this centennial year celebrations in Montreal. World juniors in Mtl.,All Star game in Mtl.this year and the Stanly Cup finals in Mtl. this year. Maybe, just maybe Bob turned his head toward the greatest sports franchise on the planet!!
But please no Jagr, I would have such a hard time of it. I just have no respect for him.
Don't worry about Jagr Ian, the RDS article linked above says that when Gainey was asked about Jagr he said We don't really have any interest in him, or something like that.
Sorry your right, when talking to sundin in sweden I should have said.
Ian, you must have eaten your wheaties today - I've agreed with everything you've said - and especially this analysis.
And as for this "Sundin messed up" nonsense. Sundin is looking out for Sundin and good for him. People MESSED UP by listening to SUNDIN'S AGENT AND NOT TO SUNDIN. Sundin was CLEAR about being uncertain about his plans - since February. Bob was the ONE GM with the brains to get involved in a conversation with him early and actually LISTEN to him.
Everyone who is blaming Sundin should take responsibility for not listening to the man.
~Listen to the smart dog!
bob never made it to sweden.
No, but he engaged him in conversation respectfully - and he listened to him. That's why he said "we're going on another direction" while others were still frothing at the mouth. Bob knows much more than any of us, but reading between the lines I'd say either he's not coming (and Bob knows it) or he's very interested if he doesn't retire - and Bob knows this. Either way - in Bob we trust. And good for you Sundin. Let the jerks be jerks, and you should tell your agent to listen a little better to you and not to his own wishes.
~Listen to the smart dog!
Honestly I don't know why all these media people made a big fuzz about Sundin's indecision. I read another article on hockeybuzz.com last night and the writer basically wrote the exact same thing. The fact is Sundin's statement yesterday was crystal clear: he is telling all the teams to do their own free agent shopping and don't bother to wait for him. I guess the Habs do have a slight advantage over the other teams (especially Vancouver), is that we have a good enough team that it won't be the end of the world if Sundin doesn't come, but for a team like Vancouver they need Sundin on the team just to make the playoffs. If Gainey thinks that Sundin is the only impact player he is interested in then he should resist the temptation to sign someone else that is not as good, and hopefully Sundin will call him up one day telling us that he is coming here.
I still believe Sundin is coming to Montreal and I think Bob feels that way too. If he goes to Vancouver it's all about the money for him, and if that's the case then we don't want him anyway.
I don't think a $4M difference is going to be worth the beating he'll take in the Western Conference either. We have La-ROCK so he'll be safe here!!
I think the longer he takes the better chance Bob has of signing him. Other teams (can you say 'Vancouver') will need to find a replacement sooner rather than later. I think Montreal is in the unique position of being able to wait it out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If a man speaks in a forest where no woman can hear him, is he still wrong?
very true
Judging by what BG said at the press conference to introduce BGL, it looks like he is just waiting for the Meatball