Market watch
posted by Mike Boone at 17h59 EST on Jul 4
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Submitted by HabsProf on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 15:45.
I don't think that the price has really come down on Rivet. I think it was just a matter of salary cap realities. Sometimes teams seem to give a player away, but a trade's return includes more than just other players or picks: it also includes the reduction of salary cap hit. The trade of Rivet frees up 10.5 million in cap space over the next 3 years. After the new additions of Boyle and Blake, Rivet was the highest paid d'man.
The one part that does surprise me is that, with the trade of Rivet, only Boyle and Lukowich are under contract after this season.
Submitted by arcosenate on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 11:18.
rivet is going to love buffalo. i can't think of a better contrast, san jose to buffalo, great weather to buffalo, contender to buffalo. he must be pretty happy today.
Submitted by Bouleau noir on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 00:56.
I wonder why BUF is given up on Bernier, he certainly seems like an attractive package being only 23, right handed and weighing 235 pounds ... averaged 16 goals in each of his two first complete season ... Vancouver landed him from BUF in exhange of two draft picks..... next year third rounder and the following year's second rounder ... according to some big guys take longer to reach their pace and potential in hockey ... with respect to that when looking at Bernier's stats he seems like a promising player and a bargain to Vancouver if that were to happened.
Submitted by 24 Cups on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 06:55.
BN - Like you, I'm too am puzzled at this move. Either Bernier isn't developing the way people thought he would or Buffalo is afraid to pay him what he wants as a RFA. Not many 2nd and 3rd rounders make the NHL so Buffalo is rolling the dice a bit here. As I stated before, this team is in danger of slowly receding back into the lower half of the NHL.
The Original 24 Cups
Submitted by Bouleau noir on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 14:09.
I guess Bernier made it difficult and BUF's GM wanted to avoid dealing with the consequences of arbitration OR that VAN's GM warned him in advance about an offersheet that they were about to deliver for Bernier in the 2.5 million range which if not matched would have lead to a single compensatoty draft pick in the second round.... they proposed BUF a trade instead of which they were ready to add an extra pick from the third.
As of now no fans in BUF are able to figure that one out.... they had a President Trophy winning team a couple of years ago and most feel that the falling from grace will continue... the mood is low.
Submitted by SmartDog on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 07:02.
>Not many 2nd and 3rd rounders make the NHL ...
Huh? Which NHL are you talking about? Do you think the players all come from the first round?
~Listen to the smart dog!
Submitted by 24 Cups on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 21:42.
SD - There's a difference between playing a few games in the NHL and being an NHL player of substance. I'm not going to get anal on the stats here so I rolled the dice and selected 2003 (a great draft year) as an example.
2nd Round
Eriksson
Bergeron
Fritsche
Carle
Weber
Backes
O'Sullivan
Lapierre
That's 8 out 30 picks.
3rd Round
O'Byrne
Picard
That's 2 out of 30 and they haven't even made an impact on the NHL yet.
So right now, five years later, only 10 out of 60 players have made any kind of an impact in the NHL.
The Original 24 Cups
Submitted by ebk on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 12:04.
actually a good guestion, doggie. taken from the 2002 draft
Players taken in the 1st round have played, 4618 games,scored 747 goals and produced 1976 points to along with 3205 Penalty Minutes
Players taken in the 2nd round have played, 1737 games,scored 202 goals and produced 570 points to along with 1200 Penalty Minutes
Players taken in the 3rd round have played, 979 games,scored 138 goals and produced 313 points to along with 518 Penalty Minutes
Submitted by nightmare_49 on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 10:05.
SM - I agree and you took my thunder.
Submitted by Vince is Possib... on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 22:50.
Alright the list has really shortened for what to do with the money:
1. Sundin
2. Trade for Marleau
3. Dig up Selanne from hiding (what is it with the European players and the carrot they all dangle about retiring? ie Forsberg, Selannne, Jagr, Sundin)
4. Extend contracts with Koivu and Kovalev, Komiserak
5. If 1-4 doesnt work, just save the money for the trade deadline.
If hope we bought Larocque to protect some old fart whose bones will break if he doesnt have a body guard (think #'s 1-3)
_______________________
"ITS NOT EASY BEING GREEN...FOR A SUPERSTAR"
Submitted by Chuck on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 15:33.
Please drop #2 from your list. :)
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Submitted by sidhu on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 04:16.
There's also Demitra
Submitted by Koivu12 on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 11:27.
Demitra is not an option for the Canadiens.
Submitted by Koivu12 on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 23:24.
1. Sundin
4. Yes to two out of the 3 :)
I do not agree with number 2 at all. Marleau is overpaid for what he brings.
Submitted by 24 Cups on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 22:10.
So in a very round about way, Buffalo traded Bernier for Rivet. Or you could say that Buffalo traded Campbell for a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounder. Their defense is getting kind of thin - even with the addition of Rivet. Things could get real ugly if they lose Miller to free agency after next year.
The Original 24 Cups
Submitted by nightmare_49 on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 22:57.
24 - Halak and his agent are not happy cuz it's a two way contract and will be resolved with a little more negotiating so no worries. Buffalo are very high on Mike Weber (D) and pleased with Nate Paetsch (D) so it's not as bad as it looks and have Lalime (G) now as back up. Dan Boyle isn't happy with his treatment by the new owners of the Bolts ..... http://blogs.tampabay.com/lightning/2008/07/boyle-i-was-dis.html Good Night.
Submitted by 24 Cups on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 06:49.
NM49 - I can't believe that the Habs would try and stiff Halak with a two way contract. This guy has paid his dues and is ready for a full shot at the NHL. If they're not careful, he'll turn out to be another Danis and leave town. There is no way that Denis is as good as Halak. And Carey Price still has a ways to go. Give Halak a decent contract and let's move on.
The Original 24 Cups
Submitted by twocents on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 08:30.
Maybe Gainey wants to keep his options open for adding a one year veteran if he feels Price is hesitant in anyway once the season starts. That way if he does it doesn't mean having to lose Halak because he can send him down.
Submitted by ebk on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 09:13.
Signing Halak to a two way contract would not allow the Canadiens to send Halak to the minors any more that a one way contract would. It only means that in the NHL, Halak would get paid more money than he would if he was sent to the minors.
Submitted by twocents on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 09:18.
Right, he would still have to pass through waivers? What are the rules on that? Has he played enough games to require that he go through waivers?
Submitted by ebk on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 12:05.
He can be sent to the AHL without passing through waivers this season, other than that I'm not sure.
Submitted by twocents on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 13:37.
With the two way contract though, his lower salary does not count against the cap. That's the flexibility I was hinting at.
Submitted by ebk on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 13:54.
either way, If he's in the minors, his contract would not count against the Cap. Flyers kept Denis Gauthier in the minors all of last year at over 3 million in salary but he didn't count against their cap.
Submitted by twocents on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 14:49.
Hmmm... I didn't understand that to be the case. I think article 50.5(d)(i)(A)(5) of the CBA implies different though. I could be wrong, I'm no expert.
Submitted by ebk on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 14:58.
not claiming to an expert, just what I've heard and found on other sites, like nhlnumbers.com
Submitted by twocents on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 15:10.
I wasn't implying you were claiming to be an expert.:-)
I was just making it clear that I wasn't. You could easily be right. If you are then it's purely a money issue and not a flexibilty/options kind of thing.
It seems one thing that took a real hit in the new CBA is the amount of money paid on the minor league portion of two way contracts. I think the limit for that is well under 100,000.
Submitted by Koivu12 on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 22:22.
They dropped the ball two years ago. It will take them a long time to recover.
Tampa has no defence at all either.
Submitted by 24 Cups on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 22:49.
Koivu12 - There has been so much player movement in the past week it's difficult to get a complete handle on where each team stands, especially seeing it's summer and there's so much more to do than follow hockey. Once the dust settles, fans will be able to see that there is a serious changing of the guard going on in the NHL. Seatbelts and lifejackets would be advisable.
The Original 24 Cups
Submitted by filincal on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 22:02.
An interesting scenario could be in the works with BG and Dallas. Maybe Modano could be coming over in a possible trade later this summer if Sundin doesn't work out.
*just a theory.
I BLEED BLEU BLANC ET ROUGE!!!
Submitted by joeybarrie on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 23:03.
Mike will play out his contract, retire from playing and join the head office with buddy Brett Hull... No Habs in his plans.
Submitted by Habsfan39 on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 21:51.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=242532
Lowe ripping Burke, absolutely hilarious... but he is right on
Submitted by habs-13 on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 18:41.
Speaking of Rivet, when are we going to sign Gorges and the rest of our RFAs?
Submitted by sidhu on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 20:28.
Relatedly, when are we getting rid of Le Dandy and his $1.75m contract
Submitted by mrstewart61 on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 20:40.
Actually, I think Dandy could be our 7th D. Who else could we get for that price and experience?
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If a man speaks in a forest where no woman can hear him, is he still wrong?
Submitted by sidhu on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 04:14.
I think we could sign Rhett Warrener for less than $1.75m to serve as our 7th D.
Submitted by The Teacher on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 20:52.
The experience of playing bad D and giving the puck up?
I kid, I kid...ok only half so...
Laraque will make them Pay the Price!
Submitted by joeybarrie on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 19:39.
We extended them an offer and they still have a few days to sign. It seems as no other team has offered an offer sheet, which we would have to match to keep them.
Submitted by habs-13 on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 20:15.
I know that we gave them qualifying offers, and that we would have to match any offer sheets other teams would give them. I'm just wondering why we haven't gotten any of them under contract.
Submitted by linp on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 20:46.
I heard Bob talking to reporters about the situation with Sundin. He has presented the organization and the team to Sundin and explained to him how he could fit in. The next move will be up to Sundin to phone him back. In the meantime, I think Bob wants to hang on to the cap space in case something happens. He may even trade away some RFAs. He is keeping his options open.
Submitted by SmartDog on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 18:19.
Rivet was a good guy but a shrewd trade at the rigth time.
Guess we'll be seeing more of him!
~Listen to the smart dog!
Submitted by Y on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 20:24.
Yup, made up for the terrible Ribeiro trade that even BG acknowledges was pretty crappy.
Submitted by SignSundin on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 18:17.
I still remember people who were mad when we traded rivet at the trade deadline two seasons ago... Bad talking Bob Gainey, now look who was right?
Anyway Craig Rivet is a good guy, Look forward to seeing him play a bit more then I did last year.
Submitted by T-roy West on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 21:02.
Jacob, you played in the NHL last year? With what team and can I have your autograph, lol!
Submitted by joeybarrie on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 19:43.
It's not always tomorrow with him. It's simply not trade in tomorrow for today. I've said it again and again. I want longevity not instant gratification. By the way, did any rent a player win the Cup last year??? Cause thats the only thing we didn't do.
Submitted by sanj91 on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 05:10.
dallas drake
Submitted by sportsfreak_39 on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 20:20.
"By the way, did any rent a player win the Cup last year??? "
Brad Stuart, Hossa came close.
Submitted by The Teacher on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 20:38.
Brad Stuart isn't a rent a player as he resigned.
close only counts in horseshoes and Bocce.
Laraque will make them Pay the Price!
Submitted by Chuck V. on Sat, 07/05/2008 - 00:34.
Yeah but that counts... the point wasn't to nitpick on technicalities but show that trading at the deadline does/doesn't help your team
Submitted by Grabbed The Cup on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 19:13.
*yawn*
Submitted by mbplekfan on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 19:04.
Sorry but imo you are completely off base. Gainey picked up Tanguay for added scoring up front and the premiere tough guy in the league who is considered an impact player by the respect other teams will now show but somehow that isnt enough?
Rolston was never coming to any Canadian team so dont even consider that, and as for brunette why bother? The Kots brothers are improving rapidly and are becoming elite players, pleks is a well respected center and Lats and Chipper are becoming more complete players everyday.
There is no need to add much up front unless it is the elite of the FA group.
Submitted by nightmare_49 on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 20:00.
m - Brunette why bother - He won't dazzle you with his skill and skating but he mucks it up in front of the net and though we have 7 skilled players + Lats who can play in the top 6 no one seems to do what Brunette does in front of the net on a consistent bases so he would of been a nice addition for the perimeter boys. When the Flyers beat the Habs in the playoffs their plan was to take away the middle and they were successful and that is another reason why Sundin is sought.
Submitted by showey47 on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 19:25.
i agree with you rolston wouldn't come to montreal, i would of liked brunette (mainly because he is a friend of mine and i play summer hockey with him)but he isn't the player we need. He has decent size, but not a strong skater or a physical type of players. In all honesty i would rather have todd bertuzzi, the guy is big,strong,nasty and adds the element we miss on the top 2 lines. The only question is his health. I know i will get some flack for mentioning bertuzzi but you know what the incident happened years ago and its time to move on. Its not like he has made a career out of it like chris pronger, but i'm guessing alot of habs fans would take him if we had the chance. Just my 2 cents.
Submitted by Vince is Possib... on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 22:53.
We have forotten the incident, but he has not, and has lost his edge. He will never play even close to the same hockey. Without Naslund in th mix I say let it go.
_______________________
"ITS NOT EASY BEING GREEN...FOR A SUPERSTAR"
Submitted by SmartDog on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 19:16.
Excellent response. Pat is, like so many, not seeing the steady improvement of our team, because he's fixated on guys we didn't get and not seeing who we did. Just as Hossa turned down many teams, there are always more suitors than matches for the star players... and Habs are better than most at shaping them.
~Listen to the smart dog!
Submitted by The Teacher on Fri, 07/04/2008 - 19:07.
Amd only Sundin at that.
Laraque will make them Pay the Price!
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