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Trade Rumours?
posted by Chris Aung-Thwin at 20h30 EST on Dec 21
Most big trades will take place during the off-season when teams have more cap space due to expiring contracts and an allowance to exceed the cap by 10% while rosters are finalized. Everything becomes clearer when the NHL announces the exact cap limit.
Carter-for-Plekanec in January would be unusual.
There are a few reasons why it might happen:
1. The Flyers are struggling. They fired their coach, John Stevens, and replaced him with former Canes bench boss and Cup-winner Peter Laviolette. As of now, Laviolette hasn’t been able to get the Flyers back on track, but GM Paul Holgrem wants to give him more time before making significant roster changes.
2. The Flyers need a goalie – now. Brian Boucher? Michael Leighton? They’re (maybe) backup material or AHL starters, but they are not your #1 in the NHL. The Flyers might have hoped those two could handle the load with Ray Emery going down with an abdominal tear, but hope won’t win you games. Jaroslav Halak would provide the Flyers with a guy who would have no trouble taking on that responsibility for the next few weeks and then giving a healthy Emery real competition for minutes.
3. Montreal has wanted/needed a legitimate #1 centerman for years. Sure Pleks is playing great, sure Scott Gomez can make fancy passes and gets paid a lot, but neither one of them is an honest-to-goodness number 1. Jeff Carter is. At 6’3”, 200lbs – Jeff Carter is big. Last year he notched 46 goals; Plekanec and Gomez combined for 36.
So, a done deal?
Not so fast. Although the trade would be similar in terms of immediate cap hit, we’d be taking on Carter’s $5 million salary for next season too. Not an excessive contract given his ability, but it’s more than Plekanec earns and more than it would cost to re-sign him. Most have Pleks pegged at a multi-year deal for around 4-4.5$ per season. A million extra for Carter might seem worth it, but the Habs just might not be able to afford it. Gomez (7.357m), Cammalleri (6m) and Gionta (5m) are already all making quite a bit. Throw in Hamrlik (5.5) and Andrei Markov (5.75) and we’re suddenly looking at a lot of money.
Oh and Carey Price will be looking for a raise this summer
Gainey would have to work some magic, but yes, he’d be able to make the numbers work.
Let’s look at the other players involved:
Hal Gill – He’s a solid bottom-pairing defenseman who has great reach and can cover a lot of ice on the PK. With Markov back, there will be less pressure on the big guy and he gives the Habs good depth. Can we survive his departure? Yes. But I’d rather give up Paul Mara.
Jaroslav Halak – We all know he’s good. When Cristobal Huet went down with a hamstring injury a couple seasons ago, Halak was more than capable as a starter. When he gets a decent chance here – which is rare –he’s good. Price has a higher celing, but Halak is definitely good. He’s been itching to play and in the short-term at least, he’d get his wish with the Flyers. Is he a bonafide number one? Maybe in a Peter Budaj sort of way but I don’t ever see him being dominant. Can twe survive his departure? Yes. Is he worth a big return by himself? No, maybe a pick and a prospect.
Do you want mayo with that? I mean, Brian Boucher. No, not really. I’d rather a late round pick or prospect.
Some questions to think about:
Can we re-sign Plekanec? Would he re-sign?
Why would the Flyers be giving up on Jeff Carter? Are the mutterings of a divided locker room true? Would we be able to re-sign Carter after his contract expires?
What would the Habs think if our hardest working player this season gets shipped out? It’s a good trade to debate. It’s not as silly as most rumours go.
If this gets done, Bob Mackenzie will probably call it “a good hockey deal for both sides”. Pierre McGuire will say the Habs gave up a lot of assets for a “monster”. If you listen to the Team 990 you won’t know what PJ Stock thinks about it - but you will - if you tune in to one of his other gigs at CHOM, HNIC, Antichambre, Al-Jazeera or China’s CCTV. Michel Bergeron wouldn't care because none of the players involved are French, but because of that he'd call it "un mauvaise echange".
…
If that wasn’t enough, there’s another rumour going around about Dustin Byfuglien being shipped here for an unknown asset. The Habs could use a guy who finishes his checks and the Blackhawks could use some cap relief. It’s unlikely that they’d want Halak with both Huet and Antti Niemi playing well, so maybe we’d send them a pick or a prospect in return.
With the Hawks rolling right now, it seems unlikely that they mess with a winning roster. They want to win a Cup this year – and I think they can do it. They can deal with roster issues in the summer and giving away a solid role player for future talent just doesn’t add up.
...
With the NHL holiday trade freeze currently in effect, we won’t know at least until December 27th. And we should also keep in mind that Bob Gainey is incredibly secretive and hates leaks about possible player swaps. So what are the chances that this is legit? I’ll leave that to you.
Carter for Captain?
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Why would anyone trade Halak, he's a much better goaltender then Price is. The team plays better with him in goal because they know he won't let soft pucks go in. I say trade Price and keep Halak there records speak truth: Price 11 - 20 (OT included), Halak 14 - 8 (OT included). If Price had won half those games we would be 20 points ahead (75) and 5 point ahead of Washington (70) who leads the Eastern Conference. Halak is also a great team player, he always puts the team before himself.
We'd be crazy to trade Plekanec with hos he's playing now (51 points, 9 away from his carrer high 60 and still 20 + games to go). He is a great team player and would rather have an assist then a goal if it helps the team.
As for Hal Gill he's good on the PK but that's it. But I agree that I would rather see Paul Mara go, he's done even less then Hal Gill.
dude, you need to give your head a shake.
you don't make a trade like that to a team that you are competing with for a playoff spot.
and, you certainly don't trade your best player (so far this year) ever unless you're peter pocklington.
Carter is apparently a party animal, and the beef in the locker is apparently because he slept with another player's wife... He would be finished in Montreal, he needs to play in a city like Phoenix, he'd probably get 32049820398 points lol.
No but seriously, I don't think Carter is Hab material. Young stars making a lot of money don't usually work out so well in Montreal, at least for the time being (looking at you Carey, and old-Higgins).
Plus, he has 12 points in 29 playoff games...
Plus, he's expensive.
I would only really consider him for Gomez and a bunch of other accessory players/picks.
We need to clear some space to sign mister Price and Plekanec and getting Carter would allow us more space to sign all of those.
Now if we want to re-sign Bergeron (who will hopefully not, and probably not, be offered as much as Streit, but will nonetheless ask for A LOT more than his 750K for this season), and Price, and Pleks, then Gomez must go.
And for the record, Pleks will ask for more than 4-4.5, especially considering Gomez's salary, Gionta's and Cammy's. None of those three players had more than great season, yet BG payed the big price for them. It's only logical Pleks would ask for the same.
And for some reason, I get the feeling he doesn't like it here so much...
I don't think it was Carter that was being discussed. The team is weak on the right side. I can only imagine Halak was being considered for Giroux. I think a GM will try and fill the weak spots on his team, not fill the stronger spots and bounce players down the lines while still having the weak spot. Likewise Philly found the price too high and went with Leighton, who the Habs once felt was a good solid goaltender. If Leighton hadn't made it through on waivers then maybe Halak would have been the player of the week for the Flyers.
My biggest issue with this deal is that we are giving more assest yet Flyers are the desperate team here. Why would we include our best forward and a Top young goalie prospect to get Carter (espacially when Plecs is outplaying Carter). Philly is desperate to save this season. They badly want/ need a goalie (Halak), then we can package a deal for them (Halak and Gomez) for Carter. Gomez still provides Phily with a good 2nd line centre (Richards being their first), he could have some Chem with Briere (passer and shooter). Philly has cap space to take Gomer hit, espacially giving up Carter's 5M contract. Halak provides needed goaltending at a bargain price (no pun inended). We obtain Big body Centre we've been looking for in Carter. Dollar value trade off is similar. Both temas taking a gamble (Carter and Halak) need to be resigned but Halak is RFA, so Phily risk is lowered in this case, but they are taking on a larger contract in Gomer. We have a bit of Cap relief to resign Carter. I know Gomez contract is a big issue, but either Philly is desperate or they are not. Gomez has a lot of talent and is a great passer (espacially when paired with a good shooter - like Briere). This make a lot more sense to me than shipping our best Forward and Top goalie prospect to a deep that is desperate. We should be in control of the trade, not Philly. If an addiitonal player / prospect is required to finalize the dealer (2nd round pick or Mara) to Philly and Philly can toss in Boucher to eben dollar value in trade. Your thoughts are welcomed.
'Winning isn't everything; it's the only thing' - Henry Russell ("Red") Sanders
Here's a thought.......the both goalies on the Stars will be UFA's next season (Turco and Auld). This Neal kid who's been putting up some decent fantasy pts for me will be an RFA.
Maybe Gainey could call his old club and look to deal here.......
We give them Halak, SK74 and BGL
We get Auld and Neal
I'm not a GM but if I were the Stars, (unless they got some top prospect goalie in their system or they plan on siging Nabakov in the off season) I'd be addressing their goalie situation asap.n
Burke = Overrated Loud Mouth POS
Carter would be a great pick-up. But i just don't see happening. If BG, I'm looking at a team that needs a #1 goalie, not this year but the next one. And the way I see it, wait for it... the Dallas Stars. See Turco is a UFA next season. And I don't see Joe singing him to a long-term deal. Which means the Turco-era in Dallas in OVER. Now who do they have? Alex Auld is not the starter for the future, and IMO i see this at the most legit place where Halak will play. Now, I don't think this deal can be done without Joe able to sign Halak to a contract extension. Maybe a 4/5 year contract.
And who would we get in return? Well, i would LOVE to see a kid name Neal. This is kid for real. Size, speed, grit, heart, passion. He already has 18 goals this season. He would look good on that 2nd line that's for sure. Now some say it will require a bit more than just Halak. Fine throw in a 2nd rounder, no big deal. It's a perfect situation for both teams moving in the right direction! Hopefully this can somehow get done, if not, well i still think BG will think of something.
I have the HABS tattooed on my heart
I agree that this deal is not likely. Why would we trade a guy who is playing out of his mind right now for a 1 dimensional centre who is struggling to get it going and has likely played himself out of a Team Canada position. If BG offers this deal, Holmgren would be crazy not to jump. I also see Dallas as a potential dance partner. BG also has the history with the team and knows who he is dealing with though it has been a few years. Neal is a great young player but might be tough to pry away, Jamie Benn would be another that would look good in the Tri-colours. Anyone wnat Ribeiro back? Not I. Steve Ott brings the jam and can pot a few goals as well. I am not saying him alone for Jaro, it would take more.
Aill I can figure is when Price's gets his contract renewed his agent (due too all Price hype and fanfare)will be seeking 5 mill per season and Gainey's so into the Kid he'll pay his stallion.Then you have Gomez....7 plus mill per...ok ,so we used him to lure Gionta and Cammi and now that it's a done deal lets make a big package deal and trade 12 mill worth of contracts(Price and Gomez) which is a very attractive package for a team 's push for the playoff's for a couple of players Montreal needs as well ,ie(Carter ,Vincent L,Kovalchuck)and whom ever else.
Being hab fans tends to over evaluate Player like Halak,Georges,A Kost, S Kost ect and by trying to trade them in a package ain't going to open too many G.M. eye's imo....
Being Price is RFA, if another team offers $5M or more for him we should let him go 'cause Habs will get 3 (or 4?) first round picks n return. I think he is likely in the 3-4M range, in my amateur opinion...
Montreal got this backwards! If only the Expos were in a league with a salary cap and the Habs didn't have one!
Brian Burke = Overrated Loud Mouth POS
i think there are alternative packages that don't involve dealing plekanec that we can consider...
carter plays Right Wing as much as centre so it wouldn't hurt to line him up on gomez or plekanec's line if we manage to keep our 2 centres already.
gomez could soon become the most expensive third liner in the league.
can we afford it? we can depending what kind of money we shift around.
- let's make it a triple crown: Impacts, Alouettes and now the Canadiens!
Lets stand pat. I'm sure you've noticed this team is coming together and playing much better as a team.
Noticed that even before this winning streak ( haha).
Halak/Price is a fantastic 1-2 goalie tandem.(and I give the edge to Halak).
Gionta/Gomez & whomever will be a really decent second line.
I like MAB as a forward and I think he does too.
Pouliot may come out of his shell and become a bonafide French Canadian star
This winning road trip may be the start of something good.
solomio
Yeah, I'm not one for big, blockbuster trades. I hate giving up on good players that we drafted. Pleks has been a Hab for a longtime and I'd like it to stay that way.
I think if we make a trade this big, this might go down as the trade that will either make or break Bob Gainey.
It's Gainey's actions from last summer that will make or break him.
Pleks not a legitimate number one?
http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/
Size wise, Robert, size wise.
I'm not sure I buy it. He's 4" shorter...but he's the same weight.
Now, I've done more than my fair share of physics over the years. In a collision, it is the mass that matters, not so much the height. :)
In battles, it is strength and leverage that matter...if Plekanec is 4" shorter than Carter but weighs essentially the same, I'm guessing he's got to be a pretty powerful little dude. Or he has Wolverine's skeleton.
Regardless, I've never really bought into the whole size fixation. Players play "big" or "small"...Koivu always played a more physical, feisty game than Joe Thornton in those Montreal upsets of the Bruins despite giving up quite a bit in both height and weight.
Carter is a goal-scorer, but I've never found him to play an especially physical game. He does throw some hits, but I think sometimes that we think every forward over 6' tall is a Cam Neely or Alex Ovechkin. In reality, most offensive forwards play like Lemieux or Gretzky, eschewing physical play and excelling because they were simply more talented than everybody else.
Carter is an excellent hockey player with a lot of untapped potential. Plekanec is a very good hockey player that is probably at his peak now. For that reason, I might consider the trade's hockey merits...but I'm not sure I would like the salary cap ramnifications.
And I also think that trading a guy who sits top 6 in the NHL scoring race for a guy who is struggling is not necessarily the message Bob Gainey wants to send to the fan base right now, with people largely adopting a cautious wait and see attitude regarding his demolition of the team last summer.
Size wise, he's not typical of what many sense is the prototype center, but for every rule there are as many exceptions. Small players can and do play big, RE: Henri.
Plekenac curiously is nothing more than a thick steak for supper away from Crosby's stature.
Joe Thornton 6-4, 230
Henrik Sedin 6-2, 183
Sidney Crosby 5-11, 200
Tomas Plekanec 5-11, 198
Nicklas Backstrom 6-1, 210
Brad Richards 6-0, 196
Ryan Getzlaf 6-4, 210
Patrick Marleau 6-2, 220
Anze Kopitar 6-3, 222
Paul Stastny 6-0, 205
http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/
Rumours are fun. Imagine the headache they must be for a GM if they are actually being discussed.
Having watched the Habs play in front of empty barns for two games you sort of long for the old days, when there was no cap, and the teams with bank could carry the load. But the cap doesn't seem to have exceptions. So if Halak goes somewhere it needs to be for something good, because he is a good player who will be around for many years.
Is Halak an upgrade for Philly? Sure, hands down. Look at where he is playing, no offense, but goaltending isn't the Habs problem. And Sanford or Desjardins are capable and in the wings, although it would be a chauldron for Desjardins who seems to struggle at a new level for a year before finding his way.
Most players who are of value are paid like that. Carter? Sure but Philly would have to take salary off Montreal. That's where the multiple deal rumours start. Like moving eggs around in the carton, you still only have so many slots they can go into.
Thanks for the interesting article. It would be great to see some players stay Montreal Canadiens their whole career. But that involves trust on both sides. Maybe the Molsons can bring that.
Chris - A few quick points. I'm beginning to wonder if it might take 5M to re-sign Pleks. I seriously doubt that 4M will be enough. Things get crazy on July 1st and there will be only three decent centres up for grabs - Pleks, Marleau, and Jokinen (I stand corrected on that list).
Cap realities dictate that we would have to take Boucher. It's really not a huge issue as it would give us someone with experience to back-up Price. We have to spend some salary for a 2nd goalie regardless of who that might be. Gill would have to be part of the package to make the cap work on our end. His 2.25M and Pleks 2.75M equals Carter's 5M.
FYI - Boucher = $925000 and Halak = $775000. There's another $150000 difference which would be a prorated $75000.
If Plekanec wants to remain a Hab, I'm betting he'll sign for 4.5ish. 1) Hometown discount and 2) He currently has 40 points, 1 more than he got all of last season - that will help Gainey with the negotiations. Pleks is on fire right now and played well in 07/08 but last year shows he can be inconsistent. But you're right - if he hits the open market someone will pay him 5M+.
Also, I think we have the cap space to send Mara instead of Gill. It'd make things tighter, but it's do-able. Philly probably would want to send us Boucher though.
I'd love to be able to do this without including Plekanec, but that seems like a pipe dream. They'd need an offensive center in return and our cap would be a disaster.... unless we can unload Hamrlik to someone.
It looks like Halak is going/wants to go, somewhere. I'd hate to see Pleks let go. He's top 6 in league scoring! When is the last time the Habs had one of those? But, to get something, you gotta give. Still, why Pleks? Who else has any value on this team? Certainly NOT going to look at Markov. Perish the thought! The talk of trading the Kost Bros has stopped, that's a good thing, they are picking up their game, esp. AK46...there are no assets to speak of amoung the rest of the third/forth liners, so, it's back to Pleks. Assuming Philly wants immediate help. He's the only one who makes sense from ALL angles. Nobody wants that Gomez contract...he's an effective player, just not worth $7 mil a year, not even close! Definitely a hard decision for BG. I always liked Carter, and, he would bring much needed size! Plus, he knows where the back of the net is, and, what team would not jump at the chance to secure another natural goal scorer?
The problem is, the Habs are potentially, one player away from icing two decent scoring lines. When Gionta returns, and, with the re-emergence of the Kost Bros, maybe we have a built-in solution. No need to move Pleks, and, as Chris said, he is going to be cheaper to sign. In any case, unless Philly is pressing, maybe the best move right now is no move at all, let them look somewhere else...as for Halak, the way he is playing, unless he is screaming to trade him, he provides good push for Price, so status quo is the way to go...for now...
Pleks has been so good for us this year it's hard to imagine that we'd be a better team right now with Carter.
However if Pleks can't be resigned this deal may make sense for the future.
Carter is that big Center we've wanted for a long time and as good as Pleks has been with the kind of up and down years he's had it sort of difficult to imagine him being as good next year.
My problem with this deal is that Philly should be the one desperate to make and deal and yet we're giving up more then they are.
I feel we'd need to get more back unfortunately with both teams so tight under the cap it's hard to imagine anything more then a draft pick or prospect coming back.
However if we could get Coburn or Parent back I'd call this a done deal.
This was obviously posted before tonights Thrashers game.
I don't see how this is a good "hockey deal".
• Hal Gill- 26 games-2 point-minus 2- ungodly slow, and weak for a big guy. That's generous, i'd be more than happy to waive good by to this guy.
• Pleks- our best player this year hands down....next.
• Halak - He's saved our butts so many times that I'm sick of counting. He's proven time and time again that he can win games.
Carter is good, but not that good. I'd say either remove Halak or Plek from this deal.
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